All the logging in the TSF

[NWetRider]

What's up with all the logging in the TSF? I have not been riding that long but my friends who have say they have never seen it at this level. Every time I go up there I find at least one more trail gone.

Is it just that the trees are at the right age to harvest? Or was the Clinton administration limiting logging and with Bush in charge they are going full steam? Or is there some other cause?

I know the revenue from logging will always come way before recreation but I am just curious why there is so much going on now. With logging turning trails into roads, and the Forest Service trying to turn every remaining trail into a high speed quad freeway, I wonder what will be left in a few years.

[FlEYEingDubyah]

What's up with all the logging in the TSF?

Is it just that the trees are at the right age to harvest?

Bingo. Farmer always picks the tomatoes when they are ready for market.

We have the misfortune of living near\using the forest at the wrong time...when the trees are big enough.

Found a huge stretch of road blocked (for a timber sale?) in the southern piece of the TSF yesterday. Totally changes how I get to the majority of trails...huge bummer.

[Chickenhauler]

It's harvest time, and much of it is actually overdue, the previous Forest Manager was an idiot and didn't know what he was doing, so there is much more due for logging than normal this summer.

The Tillamook State Forest is managed by the Oregon Department of Forestry, not the USDA or the Park Service, or BLM, so George W Bush has nothing to do with any trees cut or not cut down in TSF. ?

PS-If you don't like logging, wipe your butt next time with plastic toilet paper.

[unkle_george]

Again I say the logging would be fine if they didn't pile the brush on the trails, skid down the trails, and generally throw trash everywhere. A few hours with the cat at the end of the sale and they could open things back up again. It's just a lack of communication between the timber and recreation in ODF that should be fixable with a few meetings with both sides.

[FlEYEingDubyah]

What's up with all the logging in the TSF?

Here's a spot they missed (that's my girlie)...probably because they were unaware of the trail buried in the ferns (LOL):

[Chickenhauler]

Again I say the logging would be fine if they didn't pile the brush on the trails, skid down the trails, and generally throw trash everywhere. A few hours with the cat at the end of the sale and they could open things back up again. It's just a lack of communication between the timber and recreation in ODF that should be fixable with a few meetings with both sides.

I agree totally. We as off roaders really need to get involved with the ODF in trail planning and maintenence. Communication is the key. Maybe the trash will make the trails more interesting and we'll be allowed to reroute some, maybe that'll keep the quads out if the trail is tight and nasty (singletrack)

[FlEYEingDubyah]

Warning! What you are about to read could be taken as inflammatory. While the intent of the author is to increase accountability and responsibility, the comments may certainly appear aggressive.

I agree totally. We as off roaders really need to get involved with the ODF in trail planning and maintenence.

Just curious...have you been to an ODF meeting in Forest Grove? And which trails have you worked on? I agree with your statement, but having been involved off and on with ODF for three years, I know very few 2-wheeled enthusiasts "get involved". When roll was called, virtually ever biker present was an officer in a club...but no other joe-citizen off-roaders beside myself and wife.

Communication is the key.

Disagree...commitment to a common goal is the key. Talk is cheap. And there's been lots of talk between Department folk and the community.

Maybe the trash will make the trails more interesting...

The trash referred to by Unkle_George consists of, literally, tons of slash and >30' trash trees (not commericially valuable), placed in such a way that they obliterate trail access. Really, have you seen what we're talking about? The statement sounds very naive or over-sympathetic.

Maybe...we'll be allowed to reroute some...

When have you witnessed ODF allowing us to reroute some trails that have been blocked by logging activities?

maybe that'll keep the quads out if the trail is tight and nasty (singletrack)

Not really getting this statement. As a rule, off-roaders (2- and 4-wheeled) try to go where they want...look at all the cut bank damage throughout the TSF and Upper Nestucca.

Still, whether single or multiple track, when it's blocked by slash the size of a bus, no one gets on it.

For two years of visiting Eagle Hill south of the north fork of the Trask River, there has been no movement in restoring the trail system that was there prior to the logging that occured 3+ years ago. There is no trace of the original trail. Firefox is missing entire sections. I don't think Chute is totally restored. When will logjam re-open? All due to logging that has finished.

Sometimes there are piles of slash at trail heads where there isn't even a timber sale happening (this is in the Trask area). One trail, at a parking area, was covered for about 50 yards with felled red alders from the trail head in...for 2 years. Yet no timber sale notices, no logging equipment, no trail closure postings. It's open now, but only because a frustrated user took a chain saw through there.

Chickenhauler, 1) I have stood up for ODF in this forum, searching my posts will verify my statement, so please do not perceive my statements to be antagonistic toward forestry officials (maybe the system from Salem down is what grinds my coffee); 2) I do push folks toward a collective effort to reach common goals with regard to our recreational desires in the TSF, so I'm not opposing your position at a philosophical level; 3) I have been an active participant in the discussions with company folk and have put a shovel to the dirt on trail parties (I have first hand knowledge not hearsay); 4) communication, with regard to this topic, is no longer the key (IMO). My perception is that frustration level is high among clubs trying to move forward with the Department (some folks are more strategic in their expression of that frustration than others); 5) I hope you can get a close gander at some of the evidence of actions that were stated here...trash piles and skidding a trail destroys it...that is neither challenging (single track) nor interesting. It is a little frustrating.

[mcdrz]

To my knowledge, the one thing that has never been talked about with logging vs recreation mgmnt:

When logging is conducted streamside, with salmon/stealhead fisheries involved...usually some type of mandated stream enhancement and/or buffer zone is created. Followed fairly quickly with some private/public project to enhance stream/fish habitat.

We need to look at logging this way. We need to have mandated recreation enhancement projects or buffers built into logging plans OR area trail rebuilding/improvement after logging is completed to compliment OHV recreation.

It is a methodology change, just as the stream/fish habitat changes were a few years ago.

I agree that this is a managment and communication issue, rather than loggers not given a crap about the TSF. Loggers, by and large, have become some of the best stewards of the forests. OHV'ers and loggers get the blame because they are generally politically expedient to blame. Just like hunters and fisherman get blamed for wildlife and fish problems. In all cases the blamed parties are far more proactive with habitat/area management than those that are levelling the blame.

With that said, there are always exceptions to the rule...and that is what the opposition zeroes in on, because that we cannot defend the uneducated, uncaring, and destructive few.

EDIT: Chickenhaulers post came up:

I agree with you to the extent that communication is meaningless unless it amounts to some preventative, constructive, or proactive action on the part of all involved. To me...communication, protracted timelines, and lawsuits work for one thing....the inability to maintain focus over the course of a management strategy so therefore it can be swept under the rug and forgotten about.

[FlEYEingDubyah]

We need to have mandated recreation enhancement projects or buffers built into logging plans OR area trail rebuilding/improvement after logging is completed to compliment OHV recreation.

I can't tell you I have read this in the Forest Practices Act or in intra-office communications, but I think it is already expected. There doesn't seem to be an enforcement piece for the "expectation."

[FlEYEingDubyah]

Anyone ever notice how frequently the trees along the trail have "Timber Sale Boundary" signs hanging on them? Those signs foretell the closing of another trail.

Why is it that our trails seem to border timber sales? Because the trails tend to run on historic logging roads or on ridges.

Knowing a trail will be closed in an area where logging will occur gives everyone the opportunity to plan a detour trail, where possible, but that never happens. At best, you get to the trail head and read a closure sign.

I dropped 3 miles off a ridge the other day to the valley floor and found the road blocked with boulders, ditches, mounds of dirt, and hundreds of yards of felled trash trees. Would have been nice to see a sign at the ridge indicating the road 3 miles ahead is impassable. I returned up the road to the ridge, went west to the next road down. It led to the first trail I knew of to take across the valley. Went 2 miles down to the trail. No closure signs, but I could see further down the watershed many trees piled on the road I just came down. Again, no sign at the top. 3rd time's a charm...back to the top of the ridge and went further west and found a road that led me down to the valley floor where I could get to a bridge to cross the river. The detouring cost me no less than an hour of time...

Could an alternate route be created to bypass the roads and the timber sale...I say "yes", but what is the ODF position? Apparently "no", because they know longer than we, when a logging operation will start in an area. Plenty of time to create an alternate route, but no effort to make it happen.

[Chickenhauler]

Warning! What you are about to read could be taken as inflammatory. While the intent of the author is to increase accountability and responsibility, the comments may certainly appear aggressive.

Just curious...have you been to an ODF meeting in Forest Grove? And which trails have you worked on? I agree with your statement, but having been involved off and on with ODF for three years, I know very few 2-wheeled enthusiasts "get involved". When roll was called, virtually ever biker present was an officer in a club...but no other joe-citizen off-roaders beside myself and wife.

Disagree...commitment to a common goal is the key. Talk is cheap. And there's been lots of talk between Department folk and the community.

The trash referred to by Unkle_George consists of, literally, tons of slash and >30' trash trees (not commericially valuable), placed in such a way that they obliterate trail access. Really, have you seen what we're talking about? The statement sounds very naive or over-sympathetic.

When have you witnessed ODF allowing us to reroute some trails that have been blocked by logging activities?

Not really getting this statement. As a rule, off-roaders (2- and 4-wheeled) try to go where they want...look at all the cut bank damage throughout the TSF and Upper Nestucca.

Still, whether single or multiple track, when it's blocked by slash the size of a bus, no one gets on it.

For two years of visiting Eagle Hill south of the north fork of the Trask River, there has been no movement in restoring the trail system that was there prior to the logging that occured 3+ years ago. There is no trace of the original trail. Firefox is missing entire sections. I don't think Chute is totally restored. When will logjam re-open? All due to logging that has finished.

Sometimes there are piles of slash at trail heads where there isn't even a timber sale happening (this is in the Trask area). One trail, at a parking area, was covered for about 50 yards with felled red alders from the trail head in...for 2 years. Yet no timber sale notices, no logging equipment, no trail closure postings. It's open now, but only because a frustrated user took a chain saw through there.

Chickenhauler, 1) I have stood up for ODF in this forum, searching my posts will verify my statement, so please do not perceive my statements to be antagonistic toward forestry officials (maybe the system from Salem down is what grinds my coffee); 2) I do push folks toward a collective effort to reach common goals with regard to our recreational desires in the TSF, so I'm not opposing your position at a philosophical level; 3) I have been an active participant in the discussions with company folk and have put a shovel to the dirt on trail parties (I have first hand knowledge not hearsay); 4) communication, with regard to this topic, is no longer the key (IMO). My perception is that frustration level is high among clubs trying to move forward with the Department (some folks are more strategic in their expression of that frustration than others); 5) I hope you can get a close gander at some of the evidence of actions that were stated here...trash piles and skidding a trail destroys it...that is neither challenging (single track) nor interesting. It is a little frustrating.

I am new to the NW and have experience in working with the MN DNR on trail work, but tend to forget that its a whole different world out here anytime you deal with a government agency.

I am trying to get involved with a trail club in the area, but nobody seems to return calls or Emails, and have not had a chance to attend a ODF Forestry Meeting yet. I'm sure that'll be an eye opening treat if its anything like the DMV or Columbia County Courts.

[FlEYEingDubyah]

...I have not had a chance to attend a ODF Forestry Meeting yet...

I think I'll be at the next Trail Planning Mtg. For all interested parties, it will be Monday the 25th of September...should start at 6:30PM.

[Chickenhauler]

I think I'll be at the next Trail Planning Mtg. For all interested parties, it will be Monday the 25th of September...should start at 6:30PM.

It's now marked on my calender.

[davek]

Good place to get info on what's happening in the PAC NW is to check www.orma.com. Tom runs a great site and is very involved in the work going on maintaining NW trail systems.

Also I'd have to agree with the trail heads getting plugged up with slash trash for months and also getting almost to the end of a trail before finding out they are closed/blocked. And it's getting worse, I don't even like riding out of Browns or Rogers camps anymore.

DK

[FlEYEingDubyah]

Good place to get info on what's happening in the PAC NW is to check www.orma.com.

DK

It's actually not dot com or "ORMA"

This will get you to the message board.

http://www.omra-online.org/forum/index.php

[davek]

Thanks, that's what I get for going on memory...

[Ride]

I have been riding TSF from 6th grade on (I'm now 41). Stick a fork in it, it's done. I'm nearly done riding up there apart from the good and nasty Diamond Mill stuff and some of the Hollywood area stuff. My buddy Adam used to go to the meetings religiously, he thought it made no difference as they would blow wind, make rules to open trails and it never happens. They don't want us riding up there and one tree is worth more than all the dirt bike riders up there to them. TSF used to be an excellent place to ride but overpopulation, proximity to Portland and the all mighty dollar have all but shut it down. We are a dieing bread friends, ride a lot now as the end is most certainly near. I wish it could be different but in the end it is about the money the tree farm generates and dirtbikers are just a very small thorn in theirs sides. They tell us what we want to hear at the meetings and then do as they wish in the forest. ?

Learn to love sand.

[Chickenhauler]

That is the right approach, don't give a rip, just roll over and bare your belly in surrender. ?

Your "friend" used to attend ODF meetings, why didn't you? Is it because you never did care? People who do nothing get what they put into it, NOTHING!

[Ride]

That is the right approach, don't give a rip, just roll over and bare your belly in surrender. ?

Your "friend" used to attend ODF meetings, why didn't you? Is it because you never did care? People who do nothing get what they put into it, NOTHING!

Excuse me? You know nothing about me so please don't start trash talking here. I spend my time and efforts on something I see the possibility of real improvement on. I could speak volumes on this and support my efforts but i owe nothing to you. I find it offensive you spout things about me and you do NOT know me at all. Your talking out your ass. I am a financially supporting member of several organizations I think will make a difference. I have done the volunteer thing and included Blue ribbon literature in my product packaging, I am on several Email listings like CLOUT to stay in touch and help were i can. Through these organizations i send Emails and letters to my government officials to try to effect change. I do what I think will have the most impact and what I can affect the most. You're barking up the wrong tree. I don't care about a place I grew up riding and loved? Your grossly mistaken. I have first hand experience in this neck of the woods from childhood, know many loggers as i grew up in Forest Grove and fully understand whats going one here. In these meetings there are rules made that they will reestablish trails they covered. This is NOT happening, in fact they go out of their way to pile a huge house sized stack right on the trailhead, on top of the new signs tax payers paid for and just took the swago through. If you have been in the TSF for the last 30 years like I have you would know the history first hand. STFU.

Whats your history smart guy?

K

[Chickenhauler]

Excuse me? You know nothing about me so please don't start trash talking here. I spend my time and efforts on something I see the possibility of real improvement on. I could speak volumes on this and support my efforts but i owe nothing to you. I find it offensive you spout things about me and you do NOT know me at all. Your talking out your ass. I am a financially supporting member of several organizations I think will make a difference. I have done the volunteer thing and included Blue ribbon literature in my product packaging, I am on several Email listings like CLOUT to stay in touch and help were i can. Through these organizations i send Emails and letters to my government officials to try to effect change. I do what I think will have the most impact and what I can affect the most. You're barking up the wrong tree. I don't care about a place I grew up riding and loved? Your grossly mistaken. I have first hand experience in this neck of the woods from childhood, know many loggers as i grew up in Forest Grove and fully understand whats going one here. In these meetings there are rules made that they will reestablish trails they covered. This is NOT happening, in fact they go out of their way to pile a huge house sized stack right on the trailhead, on top of the new signs tax payers paid for and just took the swago through. If you have been in the TSF for the last 30 years like I have you would know the history first hand. STFU.

Whats your history smart guy?

K

I am new to the NW, and am getting disgusted by the attitude of many so called "enthusiast" that only use and do nothing to further our causes. Your original post stated "Stick a fork in it, it's done. I'm nearly done riding up there..." Thats where I got the idea you don't care. Sorry! ?

I E-mail, call, write and attempt to contact several MC clubs, but to nobody returns Email or phone calls. Guess everyone wants to keep their clubs private.

Donating to organizations and writing letters is great, but when we show up at meeting and trail work parties in numbers is when we can make a difference. A dozen will get SOME things done, HUNDREDS will get LOTS of things done. The Squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the more we got squeaking in person, the more likely ODF is to do the right things just to make us be quiet.

We can NEVER give up on a riding area, no matter what the powers that be may try, as we aren't getting any more opened up. NEVER say die!

BTW-my little rant wasn't at you personally, it was at persons in general who do nothing more for a riding area than buy a sticker. TSF has an awesome amount of riding area, and many from where I came from would kill just to have this acreage and terrain close by, we can't let it slip, even an inch.

We lost some awesome riding areas on the WI-MN border due to nobody showing up at the meetings, and I'd hate to see that here. There were 3 of us from the "yay" side, and we had a hard time getting into the county board meeting, much less being heard, over the 200+ "nay" people. I know 1000X that many enjoyed that trail system regularly, but nobody took the time to attend, so we got outnumbered.