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Rally Prepping a TE 510 - need some advice

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Hi All!

I am going to be on a Africa multi day rally raid next year and I am going to take my 2006 TE 510 out there.

Now we have all followed Mikes thread and his preps for the Dakar. For me it will be either the Lybia Desert Challenge or the Tuareg Rally. Both are about 2500km with days stages between 200 - 400km.

Here some questions:

- Fuel tanks: what is the exact(!) capacity of the IMS tank?

- Has anybody an idea for side panel tanks or even tried the ones for the KTM side panel tank from Baja Designs? Fit? => https://www.bajadesigns.com/NET/mainframe2.aspx?content=

- Who has an oil cooler attached to his bike? Which brand, how and where have you attached it?

-What are the potential weak spots of the bike that I have to fix before the ride?

- Is the ICO tripmaster reliable?

- Any ideas where I might get good prices for the above mentioned items?

Thanks all!

Volker

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here's a link to the KTM side tank install http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398838&parentpage=9

The IMS 4 gallon some say is actually 4.1 but I don't see 0.1 gallons being that big a deal unless you are on fumes. But that would give you 5 1\2 gallons. I don't know what kind of mileage the TE510 gets at race speeds, so I can't comment on the range, how far apart are the gas stop's???? guessing at 20 mpg would give you 110 mile range or 176 km would that be enough??

Good luck, & keep us informed on your buildup :thumbsup:

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Thanks Ruffus for pointing out the side panel tank link, looks pretty good although I was rather thinking about the one that hides under the side panel (for the newer KTM models).

I hear / read different things about the capacity of the IMS tank, between 3 - 4 gals, that is kind of vague. 4gals in total is very tight, 5 would be fine.

Tank stops are supposed to be 150km appart ( as in the PD) but who knows for certain..

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there are two IMS tanks, one is 3 1\2 gallons, the other 4 gallons as far as I know

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I have an IMS 3.5 gal. on my 2006 TE 45o. It went to reserve at 3.39 gals. There was .1 to .2 gals in reserve.

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For what it is worth, I have an IMS 3.5 gal. on my 2006 TE 450. It went to reserve at 3.39 gals. There was .1 to .2 gals in reserve.

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I've got the same problem like you. I bought a IMS 4.0 gal (they say it's 14,8 L ) but I don't have it yet. Hopely end next week. Then I'll will test it for how many it contents and how far I can drive with it. I'll let you know about it.

I also go in november to a raid in Africa 4600 km( trek dial dakar ) and we'll need a range of 180 km.I drive a 450 TE (2005) I hope it wil be enough, but I not sure. It would be better if don't need an extra side tank.

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Heres some things to consider:

1) The range of 150kms-180kms:

When this is in thick sand this is about 4km-6km per litre! If you get lost and have to go backtrack for even 10 minutes in sand dunes with a heavy bike full of fuel and stuff--well you get the idea. Lots of spinning the tire--not much forward movement....

Of course on hard surfaced roads at moderate speed without heavy gear the bike can get 2-3 times that distance.

Its important to consider this for the Libya Rallye, Pharoes, UAE or other sand dominant rallyes. Less important for Rally Oreint, Pampas Rallye or Morrocco or Baja.

SO the idea of the simple solution IMS 4 gallon tank (it can be heated and expanded to 4.5 gallons) with the Baja Designs rear 1.5 gallon tank might be the solution in some rally events--but for sure not in all.

Also--before trying a serious rally with that arraingement it would be worth talking to the privateers who went to Dakar last year. There are special issues that need to be corrected with that set up.

This left us with some serious problems for fuel. We have managed to adopt the Meca Systems dual plastic (Acerbis made) front tanks--but it took some machining work--and its not cheap.

We tried adapting the Meca Systems rear fuel tanks--but after considerable time and expense--we just didnt feel good about adopting the KTM rear fuel tanks to the Husqvarna sub-frame. So we are making our own. I can make you some if you want.

Of course--the problem then is one must put a new exhaust. Its not easy! Its also not cheap.

So yes--you have to consider the cheap and easy BD and IMS set up--and understand you will not be able to go 150kms in the sand dunes....or go with a far far far more expensive 4 fuel tanks and a new pipe, etc. etc. set up.

If only someone made a plastic 5 + gallon fuel tank for the TE450/510!!

I called Aqualine, Clark, IMS and Acerbis--none were interested. It costs about $10,000 to go into production. That means they must sell 100 tanks to break even.

2)

ICO vs IMO

Most go with the ICO. I have both. The IMO rallye model is nice and has some great features. The ICO is also very good. Perhaps its fairest to say the ICO is a bit better for extreme racing situations--and the IMO is better for touring or less severe racing situations. But really both are very good.

Just so you know: Both can run off the same magnet--this means you can run one of each.

One area i had problems was with the IMO mounting plates. They broke from vibration during testing and i had to make my own.

Finally: Tourtech and Cycoactive (US importer for Tourtech) have been really good suppliers and are first rate companies to deal with. Its the same with ICO--first rate.

3) Weakspots on the bike:

During LOTS of very very extreme testing/racing in Baja and Nevada we have found that:

a) The clutch slave can fail. This is partly from local vibrations on the plunger(correct it with a local o-ring on the shaft) and partly from over-filling the clutch oil resevoir (creating to much pressure). Make sure it is not completely filled.

:thumbsup: The plastic chain guide, chain slider and rubber rear shock flap can all wear very fast. About 600-800 kms or less between changes.

c) Front wheel bearings can fail. Might be from pressure washing--but they are unusual bearings. Bring extras.

d) The crank and cam chain can wear out after 7-8000 kms. I had to replace both. The piston and rings also needed a change--but they could also go farther. The valves didnt need any changes!! 10,000 kms and still going strong!

e) The stator will go out if you dont take off the cover and clean the dirt around it and the flywheel. This should be done every 1500kms.

f) If you ride the bike with no radiator fluid (after a crash or something) the first parts that will break are the stator. The bike will run out of electricity before melting! For an extreme rally raid it is an idea to carry an extra stator.

g) In a bad crash the corner of the cover of the clutch resevoir can break off where the extension holds the decompression lever. Its a good idea to use a KTM cover and seperate mount/lever for the decompression lever.

h) IN an extreme crash the rubber mounts for the handlebars can be abused. Its worth taking some extras to the rally raid.

So all in all the bike has very few little problems. Less than most of the others-thats for sure. Its a great choice for rally raids. One important thing to remeber is the engine doesnt like to be revved for long periods of time. SO that means going slow over long transfer sections. My plan is to never go over 100kmh on the transfer/liason sections at Dakar.

4) Oil pump---we decided not to do it. The large amount of oil in the engine is fine for long rides. It will not run low even with some loss. For me the additional benefit of oil cooling was off set by the fear of changing the oil pressure and oil volume. It would be easy to tap into the external oil lines, but unfortunately it would also be easy to lower the oil pressure--and theoretically effect the bearings, journals, etc. that are being lubricated. With more time and lots of money it could be done correctly--but simply mounting an external oil tank between the triple clamps (you can buy one from joeracer.com) is IMO not something that is proven reliable. Perhaps i am 100% wrong and perhaps i will live to regret the decision. If you do run an external oil resevoir please let us know how it goes.

Fluidyne makes some nice ones! So does Baja Designs. A unit from a XR400 would also work well.

Well this is just the expereince of two guys who race the TE510 in baja and nevada. Only our opinions. Come see us in Lisbon!

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Mike - silly question but if you wrote Clarke/IMS a check for $10k then would they whip up a mold and make you 10 tanks of whatever size you want - then sell to others for $2k or whatever? You make it sound like you spent at least $10k.

Put a Mike Kay special edition on the tank...

.

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Mike, thank you for your great advice, following your PD threat here on TT I was hoping to get your feedback and valuable input!

On a number of trips I have spend about 8 month in total in Africa and Sahara on a number of bikes, travelling and racing. I am just new to Husky and its particularities…

Fuel: IF the IMS tank is 4 gals than I would be fine together with the BD 1,5gal tank for 200km. Dunes in Lybia are, other than Morocco and especially Tunisia, are rather hard. I do not expect fuel consumption to go over 10 litres / 100km.

My humble experience is, that keeping it simple is usually better than making it overly complicated.

ICO vs Touratech: I have heard people having trouble with the TT… it is also quite a bit more costly. TT is having one which as a number of nice features such as oil temperature, oil pressure (?) etc. which are interesting for racing, though I believe they do only make it in a bigger housing.

I was not indenting to add an extra oil reservoir, just an oil cooler into the external oil line. Yes, I was looking at the XR400 one…. I am not to concerned about oil pressure. That is function of a number of variables that change for example with engine temperature and rpm which of course are not constant. Hence the system has to be able to coop with a wide range of oil pressure. In addition, to me limited knowledge on Husky engines, there are no bearings in the cylinder head which are pressure-fed, thus a little change in oil pressure would do no harm. However, it is a additional part which can break and causes hassle etc.

Do you intent to attach an oil catch bottle into the engine vent (from the cylinder head cover tot the air filter)? Have you experienced a lot of oil coming oil during prolonged WOT stages? Unfortunately, one can not always sit at 100kph. If I would do the PD I would take it nice & easy just to make it there – but for a 2500km event it is a different story and I will push it.

Yes, I hate the design of the rear chain guide, tried one from KTM / Husagerg, they do not fit. Any idea?

Volker

Heres some things to consider:

1) The range of 150kms-180kms:

When this is in thick sand this is about 4km-6km per litre! If you get lost and have to go backtrack for even 10 minutes in sand dunes with a heavy bike full of fuel and stuff--well you get the idea. Lots of spinning the tire--not much forward movement....

Of course on hard surfaced roads at moderate speed without heavy gear the bike can get 2-3 times that distance.

Its important to consider this for the Libya Rallye, Pharoes, UAE or other sand dominant rallyes. Less important for Rally Oreint, Pampas Rallye or Morrocco or Baja.

SO the idea of the simple solution IMS 4 gallon tank (it can be heated and expanded to 4.5 gallons) with the Baja Designs rear 1.5 gallon tank might be the solution in some rally events--but for sure not in all.

Also--before trying a serious rally with that arraingement it would be worth talking to the privateers who went to Dakar last year. There are special issues that need to be corrected with that set up.

This left us with some serious problems for fuel. We have managed to adopt the Meca Systems dual plastic (Acerbis made) front tanks--but it took some machining work--and its not cheap.

We tried adapting the Meca Systems rear fuel tanks--but after considerable time and expense--we just didnt feel good about adopting the KTM rear fuel tanks to the Husqvarna sub-frame. So we are making our own. I can make you some if you want.

Of course--the problem then is one must put a new exhaust. Its not easy! Its also not cheap.

So yes--you have to consider the cheap and easy BD and IMS set up--and understand you will not be able to go 150kms in the sand dunes....or go with a far far far more expensive 4 fuel tanks and a new pipe, etc. etc. set up.

If only someone made a plastic 5 + gallon fuel tank for the TE450/510!!

I called Aqualine, Clark, IMS and Acerbis--none were interested. It costs about $10,000 to go into production. That means they must sell 100 tanks to break even.

2)

ICO vs IMO

Most go with the ICO. I have both. The IMO rallye model is nice and has some great features. The ICO is also very good. Perhaps its fairest to say the ICO is a bit better for extreme racing situations--and the IMO is better for touring or less severe racing situations. But really both are very good.

Just so you know: Both can run off the same magnet--this means you can run one of each.

One area i had problems was with the IMO mounting plates. They broke from vibration during testing and i had to make my own.

Finally: Tourtech and Cycoactive (US importer for Tourtech) have been really good suppliers and are first rate companies to deal with. Its the same with ICO--first rate.

3) Weakspots on the bike:

During LOTS of very very extreme testing/racing in Baja and Nevada we have found that:

a) The clutch slave can fail. This is partly from local vibrations on the plunger(correct it with a local o-ring on the shaft) and partly from over-filling the clutch oil resevoir (creating to much pressure). Make sure it is not completely filled.

:thumbsup: The plastic chain guide, chain slider and rubber rear shock flap can all wear very fast. About 600-800 kms or less between changes.

c) Front wheel bearings can fail. Might be from pressure washing--but they are unusual bearings. Bring extras.

d) The crank and cam chain can wear out after 7-8000 kms. I had to replace both. The piston and rings also needed a change--but they could also go farther. The valves didnt need any changes!! 10,000 kms and still going strong!

e) The stator will go out if you dont take off the cover and clean the dirt around it and the flywheel. This should be done every 1500kms.

f) If you ride the bike with no radiator fluid (after a crash or something) the first parts that will break are the stator. The bike will run out of electricity before melting! For an extreme rally raid it is an idea to carry an extra stator.

g) In a bad crash the corner of the cover of the clutch resevoir can break off where the extension holds the decompression lever. Its a good idea to use a KTM cover and seperate mount/lever for the decompression lever.

h) IN an extreme crash the rubber mounts for the handlebars can be abused. Its worth taking some extras to the rally raid.

So all in all the bike has very few little problems. Less than most of the others-thats for sure. Its a great choice for rally raids. One important thing to remeber is the engine doesnt like to be revved for long periods of time. SO that means going slow over long transfer sections. My plan is to never go over 100kmh on the transfer/liason sections at Dakar.

4) Oil pump---we decided not to do it. The large amount of oil in the engine is fine for long rides. It will not run low even with some loss. For me the additional benefit of oil cooling was off set by the fear of changing the oil pressure and oil volume. It would be easy to tap into the external oil lines, but unfortunately it would also be easy to lower the oil pressure--and theoretically effect the bearings, journals, etc. that are being lubricated. With more time and lots of money it could be done correctly--but simply mounting an external oil tank between the triple clamps (you can buy one from joeracer.com) is IMO not something that is proven reliable. Perhaps i am 100% wrong and perhaps i will live to regret the decision. If you do run an external oil resevoir please let us know how it goes.

Fluidyne makes some nice ones! So does Baja Designs. A unit from a XR400 would also work well.

Well this is just the expereince of two guys who race the TE510 in baja and nevada. Only our opinions. Come see us in Lisbon!

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I've got the same problem like you. I bought a IMS 4.0 gal (they say it's 14,8 L ) but I don't have it yet. Hopely end next week. Then I'll will test it for how many it contents and how far I can drive with it. I'll let you know about it.

I also go in november to a raid in Africa 4600 km( trek dial dakar ) and we'll need a range of 180 km.I drive a 450 TE (2005) I hope it wil be enough, but I not sure. It would be better if don't need an extra side tank.

Woef, 14.8l do not seem to be enough IMO...

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EXCkiller-

You can find an excellent replacement for the chain guide at

www.brpit.com

it is a new item from them.

Also highly recommended to use Ironman sprockets.

I dont have a filter on the crankcase breather/airbox and we have never had problems with oil overflowing during long high speed runs.

I also have several filters on the carburetor vent lines. Its highly recommended. The carb does suck up dirty stuff thru the vent lines.

An old trick here is to take an IMS tank--mount it on the bike--fill it with almost boiling water and let it sit over night, slowly cooling. While hot you can blow into the vent hose. All this will give you more or less 1/2 gallon more capacity. Its possible with the BD rear tank you can have 6 gallons on the bike. This would give you the range to make 200kms--but not in sand. Also there is no 'safety' of a little extra fuel. Still--it should just barely get you there. Worth a try!

To answer your question about paying IMS to make a tank--

Yes--for about $10k they would make a mold for a fuel tank. They would also make 100 or more tanks. One problem is it takes about 3 months for the process. Also--they are very very busy. They have to make 1000's of tanks for the new Yamahas, KTM's, Suzuki's, etc. and the sales of the Husky are not in the same league. .

I have to think somewhere in China there is a guy who could make fuel tanks for a small fraction of that price.

The very very low center of gravity on the Acerbis/Meca-system fuel tanks we have is impressive. Also--they are duel side by side tanks that come off without any wrenches. Its an impressive design. I cant help but think there is a market for larger tanks with this kind of design.

Anyway--its very cool you are interested in rallying the Husky. I suspect more will be doing it in the future as well! Keep us posted. :thumbsup:

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Hmmm, temped to try the Clark tank for the apparently better air flow. I have also considered an xtra oil filter (toilete roll) of the KTM RallyReplica which will act as a small oil cooler as well.

Don't know Ironman sprockets but I will certainly use steel ones -:thumbsup:

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