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RG3 or Applied? (22mm or 27mm?)

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For an 06 YZ250F,

The two biggest triple clamp manufacturers can't seem to agree. :applause:

Applied has 27mm offset clamps. There seems to be a lot of good reviews on these. :thumbsup:

RG3 recommends 22mm offset clamps. I haven't seen any reviews of these. Kinda surprising... :ride:

Stock offset is 25mm. Anybody know why these guys went in opposite directions?

Thanks!

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We had a debate about this a while back, never did get any answers from the people in the know. SEE HERE.

What I do know is, when you increase your offset, you decrease your trail, which is supposed to provide quicker steering. Decreasing offset increases trail which is supposed to provide greater high speed stability. A few guys here have reported quicker handling with the decreased offset, though, contrary to all info I could find on the subject. The best explanation I could find was that decreasing the offset decreases the radius around which you have to turn your front end, making the steering feel lighter, but not necessarilly quicker. :thumbsup:

I welcome a better explanation.

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Once posted by RideRaceLive123:

Some one on here that knows a Factory mechanic said the 2006's YZ125,YZ250, and YZ250F need 22mm. Where the 2006 YZ450F is the only bike that needs the 27mm.

Why do you think RG3 sells only the 22mm clamps? Because apparently they do suspension testing and actually knows how to set up a bike where Applied is just a clamp company. That claims the 27mm worked better when they did a blind- test(where riders don't know which clamp is on the bike) on probably a stock suspension, stock tire, stock everything. That probably helped the bike when it was stock because the stock D739 has horrible turnin and the 27mm probably made up for that.

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>>>> That probably helped the bike when it was stock because the stock D739 has horrible turnin and the 27mm probably made up for that.

Not a bad theory at all. I also notice applied is the only company making 27mm offset clamps. Everyone else settled on 22.5-23.

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You may want to check out the following threads from the 2T YZ250 forum. It provides a nice ride report of the RG3 clamps and some additional discussion regarding offset...

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394921&parentpage=14

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396591&parentpage=13

You may also find the following quote from the thread interesting:

"Oh, one other thing. A former Team Yamaha mechanic, initials "SN" told me the 22.5-23mm offset clamps have been used by team yamaha for almost 10 years. Their team yz 250's always used them. he also said the 27mm clamps sold by applied were the WRONG direction on our yz 125/250's. they were created to address a flaw in the geometry of the 06 yz 250f and would be a poor choice for our two strokes."

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I just raced an 06'yzf250 (in a team harescramble) with the 22RG3's....FANTASTIC!! The bike cornered wonderfully with NO push at all.

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what you guys are looking for is someone to do a test on the clamps back to back. Stock vs 22 vs 27mm offsets.

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what you guys are looking for is someone to do a test on the clamps back to back. Stock vs 22 vs 27mm offsets.

Exactly, that would be great, maybe some TT members who have one of each, can get together and try both (switch bikes and test) and come up with an official report for us, that would be awesome as it seems like nearly everyone with an 06 250F is interested in this solution.

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I just called Applied and RG3 regarding this.

Applied says the 27mm offset is specific to the 2006 YZ250F only, that it can be used with the 450 as well but the Dubach prefered a 24 mm offset for the 450. Also that this was the result of extensive testing with Doug and that YOT uses these. For 2007 Yamaha made a change in the frame to accomplish the same thing.

RG3 says go with their 22mm offset clamps. I specifically asked them what the deal is with the discrepency between them and Applied ... the guy I talked to said that the Applied clamps are less stable and that Applied is back-tracking on the 27mm offset and going to 22.5 instead.

So the contradictions continue. My tendency at this point is to go with Applied because of Doug and the favorable reviews, plus they're $250 less expensive.

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thanks for all that good info, so the guy at rg3 said that applied is going to start making 22.5s?

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Just so I'm clear...

On the Yamaha website, they state the following for the '07 250F

"Moving the steering head 3mm rearward makes the bike super-nimble turning into tight corners and carves tight lines."

Since I believe that the 06 clamps had an offset of 25mm, isn't Yamaha accomplishing the same as using a 22mm clamp by moving the steering head back 3mm?

Like some others on the board, I am trying to decide between getting a leftover '06 for a good deal and adding the RG3 or Applied clamps or getting an '07 and keeping the stock clamps.

BTW...I talked to RG3 and they stated that you have to buy both the top and bottom clamp to get the 22mm offset, not just the top clamp for the '06.

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Just so I'm clear...

On the Yamaha website, they state the following for the '07 250F

"Moving the steering head 3mm rearward makes the bike super-nimble turning into tight corners and carves tight lines."

Since I believe that the 06 clamps had an offset of 25mm, isn't Yamaha accomplishing the same as using a 22mm clamp by moving the steering head back 3mm?

Like some others on the board, I am trying to decide between getting a leftover '06 for a good deal and adding the RG3 or Applied clamps or getting an '07 and keeping the stock clamps.

BTW...I talked to RG3 and they stated that you have to buy both the top and bottom clamp to get the 22mm offset, not just the top clamp for the '06.

If you're moving the offset back 3mm, i.e. away from the forks, then you are actually increasing the offset from 25mm to 28mm (Applied is 27mm). Also, offset triple clamps have to be installed as a pair, you can't just change the top or bottom without the other, otherwise you can't steer properly.

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Offset is the distance between the centerline of the steering stem and the centerline of the forks. It is specific to the triple clamps, hence the reason you must match the top and bottom clamps. Moving the steering stem rearward as Yamaha has done, without changing the triple clamp offset, only shortens the wheelbase (aside from weight distribution).

The main factor effected by offset is trail, but the wheelbase changes, as does the swing weight of the front end. 22mm clamps may be similar to 25mm clamps 3mm back, but the trail will be greater and the swing weight will be less. From most of the reports on TT, but contrary to everything I have read about steering geometry, it seems that these bikes are very sensitive to wheelbase changes, and rather indifferent to trail changes. :thumbsup:

What I want to know is, what are the geometry differences between all these bikes that are said to benefit from an offset in one direction or the other?

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>thanks for all that good info, so the guy at rg3 said that applied is going to start making 22.5s?

Yeah, but he must have been talking 07's - it just doesn't make sense for the 06.

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My understanding of this is real simple..........move the forks closer to you(less offset) it turns better...farther away and its more stable (more offset)

if yamaha moves the head stay 3mm closer to you the whole front end moves hence its not the same as 27 or 28mm on the 06 cause the front end is starting in a different place...and further they changed the t-clamps anyway.....funny how MXA praised the 27mm they prolly didn't even ride it.........on the pro circuit built yami they ran 22mm.........team kawi is 22mm and for that matter so is team honda

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As i said above, we really need to get some TT members with the 06 250Fs (one with the RG3s, and one with the Applieds) and let them try each others bikes out for a couple hours. And then we can sstop calling and nagging the wrong people, what we really need is a real world ride report from ourselves! I think it would be great if it were possible, anyone in here willling to try? I would but i am not in the US.

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without changing the triple clamp offset, only shortens the wheelbase (aside from weight distribution).

Exactly, moving the stem 3mm closer to the rider does not change offset.

Instead of all this clamp offset worrying just stick with the stock clamps and lengthen your rear shock 1.5mm like the 07.

The steering changes for 07 is the stem is 3mm closer to the rider and the shock is 1.5mm longer. No change in clamp offsets. The shock is going to be the noticeable change and is easy to copy. Using shims space the shocks internal base plate(top out plate) 1.5mm.

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