Seeing forks moved up in the triple clamps

[fatguy]

OK, so I've recently been purchasing some new control components for my CRF450R6. While searching the web for these components and pulling up images of how they might look, I have noticed a large percentage of these close up photos show the front forks moved up in the triple clamps approx. 5mm. What does this accomplish? Thanks!!

[mxaaron]

It will quicken your turning.

[sonobob]

It will quicken your turning.

Affirmative....by biasing the weight more toward the front. Conversely, lowering the forks in the clamps will lighten the front, typically making it more wheelie-prone...not that the 450 needs any help in that dept. If you have the owner's manual that came with the bike, it's explained fairly well in there.

[Thunderbug]

Affirmative....by biasing the weight more toward the front. Conversely, lowering the forks in the clamps will lighten the front, typically making it more wheelie-prone...not that the 450 needs any help in that dept. If you have the owner's manual that came with the bike, it's explained fairly well in there.

Not quite....

Dropping the forks in the clamps reduces rake, causing better bite through corners.

And how do you figure moving the forks down will make anything lighter or heavier? Or have anything to do with how easy the front end comes up.

Come on..

[sonobob]

Not quite....

Dropping the forks in the clamps reduces rake, causing better bite through corners.

And how do you figure moving the forks down will make anything lighter or heavier? Or have anything to do with how easy the front end comes up.

Come on..

By altering the bias of the bike's center of weight, front to back. In much the same way that adjusting the ride sag will.

You don't really want me to type all this directly from the Honda Owner's Manual & Competition Handbook, do you?

[sonobob]

Thunderbug, you are correct in your statement that dropping the fork tubes in the clamps will provide better bite with the front tire. But dropping the forks in the clamps will increase the rake, not reduce it.

[nedirtbikr]

Better bite in the corners...YES! Less stability at higher speeds...YES! Just something to keep in mind.

[sonobob]

Better bite in the corners...YES! Less stability at higher speeds...YES! Just something to keep in mind.

Ditto that. Sort of along the same lines as altering the wheelbase by adding or removing chain links will adjust traction and high speed stability. And the ease with which the bike will be prone to wheelie.

[NorCalRider]

OK, so I've recently been purchasing some new control components for my CRF450R6. While searching the web for these components and pulling up images of how they might look, I have noticed a large percentage of these close up photos show the front forks moved up in the triple clamps approx. 5mm. What does this accomplish? Thanks!!

What you are probably seeing in the pictures are '02 - '05 forks, which had an extra 6mm or so on the top of the forks. I believe in '06 Honda shortened them 6mm when they did away with the 20 inch front wheel option. Honda claimed it would save weight to chop 6mm off of the top of the forks.

If my memory is correct, the top of your forks on your '06 should be flush with the top of the triple clamps when in the stock position. When comparing '02 - '04 forks to your '06, it looks like the older model forks are raised in the triple clamps. I doubt the companies making the triple clamps had an '06 pictured in the ads. Make sense?

[sonobob]

What you are probably seeing in the pictures are '02 - '05 forks, which had an extra 6mm or so on the top of the forks. I believe in '06 Honda shortened them 6mm when they did away with the 20 inch front wheel option. Honda claimed it would save weight to chop 6mm off of the top of the forks.

If my memory is correct, the top of your forks on your '06 should be flush with the top of the triple clamps when in the stock position. When comparing '02 - '04 forks to your '06, it looks like the older model forks are raised in the triple clamps. I doubt the companies making the triple clamps had an '06 pictured in the ads. Make sense?

Norcal you are correct, sir...the '06 forks were shortened, rendering the 20 inch front wheel as an option no more. I actually had to move my fork tubes lower in the clamps to the top (not including the caps) flush with the top of the triple clamp. I guess the techs at the Honda dealership hadn't quite caught up with the service memo's, as they had set it up with the fork tops about 5mm above the clamps.

[kelstr]

What you are probably seeing in the pictures are '02 - '05 forks, which had an extra 6mm or so on the top of the forks. I believe in '06 Honda shortened them 6mm when they did away with the 20 inch front wheel option. Honda claimed it would save weight to chop 6mm off of the top of the forks.

If my memory is correct, the top of your forks on your '06 should be flush with the top of the triple clamps when in the stock position. When comparing '02 - '04 forks to your '06, it looks like the older model forks are raised in the triple clamps. I doubt the companies making the triple clamps had an '06 pictured in the ads. Make sense?

Right on the money NorCal, !!----all of the pictures are of the pre 06 bikes and yes they had actually 7mm more tube at the top.

and most of the showa a and b kit stuff still have the extra 7mm ,

so they look like they are way up but most guys only run them up maybe 1-3 mm generally , !!

[55spy]

By altering the bias of the bike's center of weight, front to back. In much the same way that adjusting the ride sag will.

You don't really want me to type all this directly from the Honda Owner's Manual & Competition Handbook, do you?

Moving the forks does nothing to move weight forward or backward! And the rake does not change either! Rake is a measurement of the headset. It's measured off the frame only, period. Trail is what you are altering. That is the measurement from the axle tot he ground intesecting with the headset and the ground. You can essentially alter the trail if you replace the triple clamp completely with a set with different offsets in the upper and lower clamps, but nobody does this. or minorly affect that by moving the forks up in the clamps.

Don't correct people when you don't know what you are talking about.

[nedirtbikr]

55spy - Where are you in Nebraska? Omaha area?

[kelstr]

You can essentially alter the trail if you replace the triple clamp completely with a set with different offsets in the upper and lower clamps, but nobody does this.

QUOTE]

well i alter trail all the time in all the bikes with less or more off sets and shorter and longer axle bosses ,

as so do many tuners , and we have been doing it for years and years,

you should note all the different offset clamps you can buy for any bike now ,

its common and done all the time ! ?

[AnotherRedHead]

Moving the forks does nothing to move weight forward or backward! And the rake does not change either! Rake is a measurement of the headset. It's measured off the frame only, period. Trail is what you are altering. That is the measurement from the axle tot he ground intesecting with the headset and the ground. You can essentially alter the trail if you replace the triple clamp completely with a set with different offsets in the upper and lower clamps, but nobody does this. or minorly affect that by moving the forks up in the clamps.

Don't correct people when you don't know what you are talking about.

Putting offset clamps moves the weight more on the front end, as does sliding the forks up in the clamps. I dunno who said anything about rake, its set with the angle the frame is welded unless you get offset bearing races. You are correct about it being trail that is affected, however the weight bias is slighty altered when moving the clamps in the forks, as well as in offset clamps. I mean, its the same principle as a launch limiter on the dirtbikes, you lower the front as much as possible and get more weight on the front wheel to prevent it from coming up. Dont you think moving the clamps has the same effect? It is after all lowering the front by the 5mm. Ive got a set of scales if you would like me to show you how it works. Im not even gonna say what you did, but watch yourself, your info wasn't exactly fool proof....

[mxaaron]

Better bite in the corners...YES! Less stability at higher speeds...YES! Just something to keep in mind.

More stability at speed. Forks up, quicker turning, forks down, better stability at speed and slower turning.

[55spy]

yeah omaha area. bellevue

[55spy]

You can essentially alter the trail if you replace the triple clamp completely with a set with different offsets in the upper and lower clamps, but nobody does this.

QUOTE]

well i alter trail all the time in all the bikes with less or more off sets and shorter and longer axle bosses ,

as so do many tuners , and we have been doing it for years and years,

you should note all the different offset clamps you can buy for any bike now ,

its common and done all the time ! ?

I forgot my sarcasm smiley. That was actually my point that there are tons of offset tripple clamps on the market and it is done all the time. Sarcasm doesn't make it through typing.

[55spy]

Putting offset clamps moves the weight more on the front end, as does sliding the forks up in the clamps. I dunno who said anything about rake, its set with the angle the frame is welded unless you get offset bearing races. You are correct about it being trail that is affected, however the weight bias is slighty altered when moving the clamps in the forks, as well as in offset clamps. I mean, its the same principle as a launch limiter on the dirtbikes, you lower the front as much as possible and get more weight on the front wheel to prevent it from coming up. Dont you think moving the clamps has the same effect? It is after all lowering the front by the 5mm. Ive got a set of scales if you would like me to show you how it works. Im not even gonna say what you did, but watch yourself, your info wasn't exactly fool proof....

a 20mm offset triple probably does move the weight thats an inch or so of offset movement, but a 5mm movement in the clamps is probably not going to be a measurable weight transfer, it might though and that would actually be an interesting thing to see. Rake was being thrown around if you read back up the post. And yeah I know I oversimplified the trail measurement but I didn't want to get into "direct from a to b and parallel to z to y and measure the distance from b to y" it sounds too much like math. ?

[Thunderbug]

I ment to say "trail"....