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Aaaah! Broken cam holder and pesky holder dowel pins?!?!?!

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Doing what it normally an easy task - checking valve clearance. When putting the cam back on right off I noticed something odd: a couple of the dowel pins wouldnt seat in right into the holders - wouldnt seat flush. Tried various combinations of pins relative to holder opening, no luck. Two seemed to just come a couplle mm short of seating into the holders. Didnt want to bang on them because even a little finger pressre made them hard to get back out. They look fine!

As a result, I couldnt wiggle the cam holders into the place to get them to seat before tightening. Wiggled and wiggled and reseated but they would only seat most of the way, not all the way. Not knowing better I guessed it must have been that way befoe and I just didnt remember it. Hoped to wrench them down assuming the torque would seat them. Worked fine, almost. Crisscross pattern tightening until 12 lb torque reached. Last bolt, upper left, seemed to continue on. Wrenching until I hit 12 but here a snap instead. Was getting tighter and close to tight when holder cracked:

holder.jpg

:thumbsup:

Ive done this once before no issues, not sure what was different. I assume the dowels not seating properly into the holders was the culprit.

Shouldnt the dowles just drop in a little snuggly? And should the cam holder with a little wiggling seat flush without needing to tighten them into place?Hoping this is just as simple as repalcing the holder, but the dowls still arent seating right. Any thoughts or sympathies?

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damn dude, even though every holder is machined to fit the specific head, you can have my other ones, as long as you pay for shipping, pm me if interested

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That is sad to see. Sorry about that. I think they are machined for the head. I don't think you can even by them alone. Hope you fine a cheap fix. A good reason to get the 07 head. Good luck.

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damn dude, even though every holder is machined to fit the specific head, you can have my other ones, as long as you pay for shipping, pm me if interested

Say it isnt so! So whats your experience with the dowel pin fittings? Them not seating right in hilder seem to be a cause somehow. What would be the sign if yours didnt quite fit?

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Looks like you didn't have the clips seated to me.

:thumbsup:

I considered that. Paid very close attention and did so carefully. Both sides looked equal abd well set... but maybe not. I even put a little dab of grease in the slot to hold them better.

Fred, what do you think aboutthe dowls? Should they pop right in and seat completely without sticking?

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Jeez, if I am going to get a new head might as well get the 2007 from RHC. And since I was shimming, might as well skip that short fix and get Ron to do the valves as well.

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:thumbsup:

Fred, what do you think aboutthe dowls? Should they pop right in and seat completely without sticking?

The dowels are a little sticky but you should be able to just push the cam holder seated. I tap the cam holder with a soft faced hammer to get it seated to the head and then tighten if I can't just push it tight.

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The dowels are a little sticky but you should be able to just push the cam holder seated. I tap the cam holder with a soft faced hammer to get it seated to the head and then tighten if I can't just push it tight.

Hmm. 2 went in just fine. The other 2 were obviously not seating. Did tap with rubber mallet. Wouldnt go it. Didnt want to hammer harder on it. Maybe I should have. So what was your new head and valves suggestion/opinion? :thumbsup:

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In your case you should probably go with an RHC 07 head and his valve setup if you have the $$$.

Time to get selling on ebay!

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In your case you should probably go with an RHC 07 head and his valve setup if you have the $$$.

Time to get selling on ebay!

I actually have money set aside for this inevitability. I might just find a 2007 head and go all oem after that.

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I actually have money set aside for this inevitability. I might just find a 2007 head and go all oem after that.

Ouch!

Planet racing mall has 07 heads and all the OEM parts listed on ebay. I've never used them, but their prices seem pretty fair. Their out of Canton, Michigan.

If you have the cash an RHC head and ferrera valve setup sounds like the way to go!

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I just bit the bullet and bought the complete RHC 2007 head with ferrera valve preintstalled. Was time to valve anyway - after all I went in to do some serious shimming. In the end, its a silver lining I guess..

BTW, RHC is an amazingly knowledgable and helpful person to deal with. As a newbie mechanic, who barely has consecutive hours to work on my bike, I love the idea of buying the complete head with valves installed ready to go

:thumbsup:

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excellent choice

Yeah, but going to have a trillion questions now.

Im wondering what little details I need to replace when dropping in the new head.

  1. Since the 2007 head is so new, which gasket do I use - 2006?

  • Are there a ton of little parts I should replace (new dowels, etc)?

  • Is there a break procedure?

Might as well do the piston while I am in there. Probably go JE. Toying with the idea of having the dealer due new piston, maybe even the top end since my confidence is now shaken :thumbsup:

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I just bit the bullet and bought the complete RHC 2007 head with ferrera valve preintstalled. Was time to valve anyway - after all I went in to do some serious shimming. In the end, its a silver lining I guess..

BTW, RHC is an amazingly knowledgable and helpful person to deal with. As a newbie mechanic, who barely has consecutive hours to work on my bike, I love the idea of buying the complete head with valves installed ready to go

:thumbsup:

How much did that set you back?

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Yeah, but going to have a trillion questions now.

Im wondering what little details I need to replace when dropping in the new head.

  1. Since the 2007 head is so new, which gasket do I use - 2006?

  • Are there a ton of little parts I should replace (new dowels, etc)?

  • Is there a break procedure?

Might as well do the piston while I am in there. Probably go JE. Toying with the idea of having the dealer due new piston, maybe even the top end since my confidence is now shaken :thumbsup:

doing a piston isnt that hard at all.. since you will be pulling your head off anyways.. the next step is getting your cylinder off, which all you need for that is to undo that 8mm bolt, and it will slide right up... then stuff a bunch of rags into your crank area so when you take out the little c-clip, when it goes PING and flies out, it desnt go in your case

for a new piston, you need the piston(obviously), rings, 2 clips, and a wrist pin(the pin that holds the piston in)

then you need a base gasket, and a head gasket, look in the manual how to instal your rings on your piston, so the gaps on the rings are in the propper place, install your base gasket, then clean your cylinder out good and dry, take some scotch brite and kinda hone your cylinder if you dont have a honing device, install your cylinder by compressing the rings by finger, put on the head gasket, then install the head!, and your set to go!

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How much did that set you back?

It really was quite reasonable I thought: $610 dollars. This is especially true because:

1) I am so busy, I find it hard to find any "consecutive hours" - having it drop in ready is worth some cash to me.

2) If the Ferrera valves + 2007 head are as good as is claimed, I wont have to redo in another 50 hrs (BTW, I took very could care of the bike and changed oil more than regularly)

3) As a shade tree mechanic, one capable of breaking a cam holder (!), it might be best if I leave the valves to a pro.

:thumbsup:

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doing a piston isnt that hard at all.. since you will be pulling your head off anyways.. the next step is getting your cylinder off, which all you need for that is to undo that 8mm bolt, and it will slide right up... then stuff a bunch of rags into your crank area so when you take out the little c-clip, when it goes PING and flies out, it desnt go in your case!

Dont I know it. When shimming valves, guess who had the camholder retainer clip drop into the case!

for a new piston, you need the piston(obviously), rings, 2 clips, and a wrist pin(the pin that holds the piston in)

I presume if I go JE it comes as a kit?

then you need a base gasket, and a head gasket,

With a 2007 head, do I just use the 2005 head gasket you think?

look in the manual how to instal your rings on your piston, so the gaps on the rings are in the propper place, install your base gasket, then clean your cylinder out good and dry, take some scotch brite and kinda hone your cylinder if you dont have a honing device, install your cylinder by compressing the rings by finger, put on the head gasket, then install the head!, and your set to go!

I think I can do this. I have the Motopowervideos on top end and piston - I think I can do it. Is this also where the controversies in break in begin?

Thanks Dan for taking the time and detailing it. Huge bonus to newbie mechanics ...... that break a camholder (sorry, I need to get over that )

:thumbsup:

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I think I can do this. I have the Motopowervideos on top end and piston - I think I can do it. Is this also where the controversies in break in begin?

:thumbsup:

I was thinking about buying that video. It shows you haw to adjust valves as well as doing the top end and piston, correct? Is it worth the money? I heard it left out some good tips. Too basic or something.

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