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Yamaha Thumper for 85cc/Supermini classes?

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My 12 year old son was doing his practice laps yesterday before the motos and pretty well running away from the other kids on his YZ85 Supermini (beautiful day and a pitifully low turnout for some unknown reason..?), when a red & white mini-thumper came roaring onto the track after him. It was a big, soft, power-robbing, loamy track with some long hills and the battle was on!

The "battle" lasted awhile, but the thumper eventually won out, partly because my son wanted to see what the heck was chasing him (he could sure hear it!) and partly because the thumper had a 17 year-old A-Class "test rider" on it, and partly because it was just plain powerful! Later, with the proud new (and much younger) owner on it, it didn't put up as much of a fight.

But it COULD have with the right rider it appears... :bonk:

It was the first new Honda 150 we have seen. I understand it is extremely high maintenence with its "mono-cam" valve adjustments (need adjusted after every race?!!), but it does have power.

I have not paid the slightest attention to the inevitable 85cc/supermini class thumper bikes being developed. Now I am, though I expressed my two biases when I declared I would never own a "first model year" experiment and would much prefer a Yamaha.

So another pit dad told me that Yamaha already had their's "track tested and proven" since 2002 and was just waiting for the official green-light from the AMA to release it (probably next summer). All the bugs were supposedly already worked out and it did not suffer from the "monocam blues" that the Honda does.

Oh boy... I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad... :thumbsup::p

Regardless, I cannot find anything with any search I try anywhere about a Yamaha mini-thumper. If the folks on this site do not know about it, it doesn't exist. So what's the scoop (before I finish sinking a bloody fortune into a Supermini motor for next year)? :lame:

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Chaindrive-

I had the chance to ride one of those red & white mini-thumpers last weekend. My initial impression was "holy-sh!t". I could not believe how fast it is and how hard it accelerates (for a little bike). I think the 85cc bikes are going to be in trouble much like the 125cc bikes were a couple years ago. The bike felt like a mini 450, spinning the tire with the front tire in the air. Guaranteed smiles.

I'm betting within 2 years all the brands will have one.

If you get a chance to ride one.....DON'T! You will want one for yourself

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My 12 year old son was doing his practice laps yesterday before the motos and pretty well running away from the other kids on his YZ85 Supermini (beautiful day and a pitifully low turnout for some unknown reason..?), when a red & white mini-thumper came roaring onto the track after him. It was a big, soft, power-robbing, loamy track with some long hills and the battle was on!

The "battle" lasted awhile, but the thumper eventually won out, partly because my son wanted to see what the heck was chasing him (he could sure hear it!) and partly because the thumper had a 17 year-old A-Class "test rider" on it, and partly because it was just plain powerful! Later, with the proud new (and much younger) owner on it, it didn't put up as much of a fight.

But it COULD have with the right rider it appears... :thumbsup:

WOW I could have written this word for word! We just went through the same thing this weekend!For me it's a love hate thing,gonna love the smooth flat power gonna hate it when it eats the valves!I think Mitch Payton said it best when he said the small 4 strokes will raise the cost of mini racing 3 or 4 fold!I guess we to will wait for the blue bike,as much as we like the thumpers in big bikes I am just a little sorry to see the minis going this way too!

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Well, from what I saw, the stock 85cc's don't stand a chance. Not even close. Not even a prayer. That red thing had a big 17 year old on it and Sky was on his 103.5cc Supermini. The power difference is even worse than when the 250F's destoyed the 125 class. I'd put that 150 thumper up against a stock 125 with the right rider. Maybe the new Yamaha 125 would have a chance... but not many others, and certainly not an 85cc.

I was actually afraid to hear his answer to the question I HAD to ask when he came off the track: Did you have your bike pinned?

"In some places, especially the big uphills, but you know how rough that track can be, and McEwen is one of the fastest A-class guys here. But there is no doubt the 4 stroke has more power. No 85 or 105 walks past me on these uphills, and he did it like he was on a 250F."

The bad news: Like you said: The cost of racing just went up so much that we might really have to fold and call it quits after 8 years. I have 2 sons to support both on and off the track. It will depend greatly on maintenence issues.

The initial cost of the bike @$4,500 is a thousand $ more than a new 2-stroke. And we have never been able to afford a new 2-stroke, much less a 4-stroke. We always buy used. In fact, we have spent all summer building our own Supermini from ebay parts just so he could have an actual Supermini next year instead of just racing that class on his stock bore YZ. He did win 2 different track/season championships in the Supermini on his stock bore YZ, though. This was only his 2nd time racing the Supermini, and I am still working on a better motor. But now I don't think it will matter a bit...

The good news: IF (and that's a huge "IF") the reliability is NOT an issue; a thumper that can kick the crap out of a big bore YZ85 right out of the box, AND is legal in both the stock and Supermini classes is probably a bargain at $4000+ compared to the cost of two bikes and especially the outrageous cost of building a Supermini. You can sink $5k to $7k in one of those real easy.

But I don't want a Honda. Or a 'zuki, or a kawi. Especially not a KTM. And if Yamaha holds true to form, they will wait until everyone has already spent their money on the Honda this winter and next racing season is underway or half over, then they will release 3 or 4 bikes per state and start a major fight to get them while driving their list price off the charts.

Meanwhile, Lorettas will be dominated by Red bikes next August; mark my words. I have never understood Yamaha's thinking when it comes to marketing. They were the first to introduce the killer thumpers, and now will let their brand loyalty go Red. Or, as it really appears right now, Yamaha may completely abandon their mini riders and not produce a thumper at all. They will regret that hugely.

I'm sorry guys, I really love 2-strokes from a pit-dad's point of view. But from what I saw, 2-stroke minis are dead meat and we might as well sell the YZs now and just skip his next 3 years of eligibility in the minis, and just buy a 250F.

I think a full season or two of having his butt handed to him by thumper riders will demoralize him too much. I know it will me. It was all I could stand to watch him take on true big-bore, big wheel Superminis with his stock 85. This will be worse. Way worse. You feel real bad as a dad when you can't afford to level the playing field, and there alot of us Dads who won't be able to.

But I also hate to put my son on a big bike in competition too soon. I've seen far too many kids get hurt badly by moving up too fast. Some can do it, but not many, and even those are at the mercy of one brief moment of bad luck or misjudgement on bikes at speeds that are not forgiving to small bodies. So maybe we just buy a used 250F, not race at all for a year or two until he is truly big enough and good enough to handle that size bike. And there go his dreams of making it to Lorettas as a mini racer... crappy choices...

Bottom line: IF we race next season at all, it will have to be on a thumper. Why race if we can't be competitive? The racing itself is just too expensive. IF Yamaha fails to market one quickly, we will HAVE to go red or yellow or green. And all of that depends upon winning the Lottery since our $2K 2-strokes just became worth half that... at best. Nobody but pleasure riders and farm kids will want one, and a YZ is not a pleasure bike. So the thumpers are not only way more expensive, but the resale or trade-in value of the 2-strokes just went right down the toilet, too. Double-whammy! :thumbsup:

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