oils to use and not to use

Does anybody have the knowledge to put together a list of oil that you can and cant use in a thumper. Because i have alot of valvoline 10w40 and a few other oils.:lol:

NEVER USE AN AUTOMOTIVE OIL IN A MOTORCYCLE. The safe thing to do is to look for the JASO MA rating. Automotive oils use friction modifiers ( which are bad on the clutch ) to compensate for a lack of other oil additives like ZDDP ( Zink & Phosphorus ) which are high stress additives which motorcycle engines love. They protect the cam and Cam Followers. as well as the crank bearings and wrist pin. Motorcycle oils have higher quality base lubes and additive packages that hold up better with wet clutches, gears, higher heat, and higher rpm than automobiles require. Motorcycle engines also have usually a quart or less oil to do the job.

Cher'o,

Dwight :lol:

NEVER USE AN AUTOMOTIVE OIL IN A MOTORCYCLE.

I disagree but it isn't worth arguing about.

Note that Rekluse has been recommending Chevron Delo for use in 4 strokes with their clutch. I figure they know more than we do.

My only other comment is I ran my 02 400exc over 20k miles without taking the engine apart. If the oils I used were hard on it, and I used anything laying around, KTM builds a better bike than I ever realized. :lol:

I believe the real key is to change the oil at reasonable intervals.

I believe the real key is to change the oil at reasonable intervals.

BINGO! :lol:

I disagree but it isn't worth arguing about.

Note that Rekluse has been recommending Chevron Delo for use in 4 strokes with their clutch. I figure they know more than we do.

My only other comment is I ran my 02 400exc over 20k miles without taking the engine apart. If the oils I used were hard on it, and I used anything laying around, KTM builds a better bike than I ever realized. :lol:

I believe the real key is to change the oil at reasonable intervals.

Remember that diesel oils are being reformulated and not for the better. Just thought I would throw that in.

DR

Shell Rotella T (CI-4 plus) has an additive package close to what the JASO MA specififies. The only area it falls short in is its excessive ash content (.17 ppm over).

The new "triple protection" Rotella (CJ-4) had alot of the zinc and phosphourus removed from the formulationton meet the new diesel standards for 2007...just how much I do not know. Shell didn't say but they did say the new oil is still safe to use in wet clutch applications. Its a good thing I stockpiled some of the CI-4 plus Rotella because I won't use the new one until I see some VOAs and UOAs of that oil on dirtbikes.

10w-40 valvolene would be ok to use in a bike because it has no friction modifiers, but I'd change it every ride for the simple reason that the additive packages in regular car oil aren't worth squat.

Remember that diesel oils are being reformulated and not for the better. Just thought I would throw that in.

DR

I've heard this but don't know how the end result of the changes are going to affect bikes. I imagine it will be a trade off concerning the transmission vs clutch vs the engine itself. Better for some systems, worse for others.

Purely a guess on my part. :lol:

You guys who claim failures will occur by using oil with "friction modifiers" in them...TELL US WHAT THESE FRICTION MODIFIERS ARE! We are mostly adults, and we can probably mouth the words even if we cant pronounce it...so go ahead, name these dreaded friction modifiers for us.

The fact is that there are not many products at all that are in motor oils of any flavor that will be detrimental to your engine or wet clutch assembly.

The products that most folks know about that will cause a problem, aren't used in motor oils to begin with.

And Rotella T has undergone an UPGRADE, not a downgrade. It is a better fluid that it was previously, as evident by the tough current standards it has to pass. The reduction of zinc in the fluid is slight ( I think it went from .14% to .12% zinc content), which is hardly a massive reduction of the additive.

But real oil mfg's like Shell know what they are doing, and you can bet they are providing a synergistic fluid that is even more robust than it was previously.

To warn against never using an automotive oil in a motorcycle is rediculous, and there is nothing at all that would back up such a warning as being valid.

Didn't I just comment on this in the Rotella thread?

How about proof rather than opinion?

NEVER USE AN AUTOMOTIVE OIL IN A MOTORCYCLE. The safe thing to do is to look for the JASO MA rating. Automotive oils use friction modifiers ( which are bad on the clutch ) to............

Vin, you say it like it was written in the gospel:confused: , dude I know you are always trying to help but don't be so anal when it comes to oil. The reality is A LOT of folks here run/have run a "non motorcycle designed oil" for many time with great results to say least.

I use ATF in my tranny not because it is better than "brand-x moto oil", I use it just because it works, and it has always worked for me (and I still haven't got a thrid nipple or skin cancer by doing that)... the same goes for *some* automotive oils in four strokes engines... jmo.

Think about it. Motorcycle Racing 4stk. Engines normally carry less than a quart of oil. This oil has to lubricate not only the engine and top end but the gearbox and clutch in most cases. Motorcycle engines also run hotter and at a much higher constant RPM. I seriously doubt that a auto oil can stand up to this type abuse. Auto oil has changed for the worse over the years as they remove stress and high pressure additives like ZDDP, because of EPA rules and Catalitic converters. I for one think a lot more of my time and my $8000 motorcycle . Good Synthetic motorcycle oil with the JASO MA rating is actually cheap insurance. How much will you actually save per year by using cheap oil providing that you don't have a catastrophic failure due to the cheap oil ? How much did you save if you have an engine failure because you overheated your engine and the cheap oil didn't stand up to the abuse ? Say you change your oil every single month. Most don't but say that if they did. Say they saved $4 on a quart of oil. $4 X12 = $48 per year. How much does replacing a clutch due to bad oil ? That would be the cheapest outcome of oil induced failure if it happens. Many people change their cheap automotive oil every single ride. Now how much do they save ? Isn't their time worth something ? Do they replace oil filters every oil change ? How much do they really save ? Is it worth it ?

Just something to think about.

Happy New Year,

Dwight

It has never ceased to amaze me how someone will buy an $8,000 machine, put $3,000 of mods into it, then bitch endlessly because they can't run $0.99/quart spiffylube in it..........

Your best insurance is still an API SG/JASO MA oil......just like your owner's manual says! And by the way, the only API SG/JASO MA oils you will find will be motorcycle specific oils. If you want even more protection, run a synthetic, preferably one of the ester based ones.

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

http://www.maximausa.com/technical/lubenews/LubeNews2002.pdf

OK, reconranger...list for us the oils not to use. You know...the ones that are known to cause problems with both performance and longevity.

Or are you saying that there are no other oils that compare with JASO MA rated fluids? Are all of these types of oils better than the rest of them on the shelf? And if so, why?

Also, if these certifications are so important, can we only trust those that are actually certified, or can we simply trust a statement telling us that the oil will meet the certifications..even though it hasn't endergone the testing and expense of actually carrying the certification logo?

(this is a futile exercize, but I am trying to make a point to those who actually are looking for the truth)

Castrol GTX !

I have seen and hear of plenty of failures with this oil in racing bikes. Absolute junk ! 30 years ago it wasn't bad stuff. But since they have reformulated , JUNK. I won't use this in my lawn mower. That doesn't mean that all Castrol oils are bad. Castrol make some decent motorcycle oils. I don't agree with them trying to pass off Syntec as a synthetic when it is a Type III base lube.

Cher'o,

Dwight

MY DON'T USE LIST:

- Castor oil

- Olive oil

- Snake oil

- Any vegetable based oils (haven't tested peanut oil yet)

- Whale oil

- Oil of Olay

MY DON'T USE LIST:

- Castor oil

- Olive oil

- Snake oil

- Any vegetable based oils (haven't tested peanut oil yet)

- Whale oil

- Oil of Olay

:lol:

I actually knew of a Doper that use to use Wesson vegetable oil as premix. I couldn't believe it. Smelled like fried chicken. His reasoning was that Castor oil was a vegetable oil so why not Wesson . WEIRD GUY, I don't know how long his engines lasted .

I think he OD .

Sad,

Dwight

Man, I couldn't concentrate on riding if it smelled like fried food all the time. I'd be wanting to eat!

Man, I couldn't concentrate on riding if it smelled like fried food all the time. I'd be wanting to eat!

Secret hare scramble weapon. :lol:

mmmm....some olive oil, a little balsamic vinegar...yummy.

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