xlr8r

Priming the oil pump?

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Sweet, my plan exactly. Can you tell me in more detail how you hooked the hose up? and what size it was?

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Sweet, my plan exactly. Can you tell me in more detail how you hooked the hose up? and what size it was?

the hose is just 1/2 in. ID heater hose you can get at any part house. i just held the end of the hose on the fill hole and blew while waitng for the oil to squirt out of the oil feed pipe.

GD, that doesnt sound right!lol

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Ok guys a year or so back honda sent us a service bulliten on priming the 650l oil pump. They advise you to remove the oil fill plug and break loose the oil bolt in the head that you use to originaly check for oil pressure. Now remove the spark plug wire and take compressed air and pressurize the frame through the oil fill hole and while pressurizing the frame turn over the engine with the starter until oil starts flowing from the oil pressure check bolt. It dosn't take alot of air pressure so don't go crazy. Hope that helps

I know this is an old Post, but I could not prime my pump, and this information was extremely useful.  So BUMP!

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To add to the priming lore, if doing a rebuild on many engines they say to pack the oil pump with white grease or vaseline.

Not sure if that'll help on the L-pig.

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maybe some trojon heating oil to get it going? just kidding, i add some compressed air to the oil tank hole to get it moving.

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To add to the priming lore, if doing a rebuild on many engines they say to pack the oil pump with white grease or vaseline.

Not sure if that'll help on the L-pig.

 

The XL600R, NX650, XR600R, XR650L and XR650R all use a gerotor oil pump, there is no reason to pack them with grease.

 

That is throwback logic from decades ago, mostly applied to automobile engines and vintage motorcycles that use an external gear oil pump. Even then, the proper way to prime the oil pump and oiling system on most automotive engines is to remove the ignition distributor and operate the oil pump with an electric drill for several seconds after achieving oil pressure. For engines that have a remote oil pump or there is too much vertical lift for the unprimed pump, a pressurized vessel containing oil is connected to the engine's oiling system via an external port, usually through the pressure gauge port, then oil is forced through the system.

 

When packing an oil pump with grease is discussed, many people like to point out that whatever they use (lithium grease, petroleum jelly, etc.) dilutes with the engine oil when hot, or the viscosity is greatly reduced when hot. The first start of a rebuilt engine is the most critical and the engine heat will not be sufficient to affect whatever type of grease or thick lubricant until past a minute or more, and that is plenty of time for insufficient oil flow to damage new parts.

 

Anyone can look at the external oil line on a RFVC engine and see how narrow it is. How well is a cold, thick grease or lubricant going to flow through that? That line is designed for the engine oil weights specified by Honda, it's not for pumping grease through.

 

During an engine rebuild and before oil pump installation, the oil pump should be submerged in engine oil and manually rotated a few times. Even though some will leak out during installation, in most cases, the pump should prime within a few seconds after starting. Don't forget, there is a head of oil above the oil pump, it's not like it has to lift oil.

 

Soaking the oil filter and filling the filter cavity with oil will help oil flow reach the cylinder head quicker too. It's not something needed during a regular oil change, but for a rebuilt engine's first start, anything that hastens oil flow is good. It's easy to fill an automotive, vertical canister type oil filter, but not so much the XR cartridge type filter.

 

In some cases, alternative methods may be required, like using air pressure, but I wouldn't consider that the norm. As some people have experienced, using air to force oil through the system may circumvent a problem, like a twisted oil hose. That can cause extreme wallet discomfort, possibly even spontaneous wallet combustion.

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I do a lot of these engines...  

I'm probably on my 20th rebuild of these motors.  XR650L and NX650. 

Priming these pumps can be a right pain in the arse.  It almost seems like witchcraft...  

I ALWAYS check for oil pressure at the head.  DO NOT check for oil at the bottom of the feedpipe over the oil filter as a short cut. You can get oil pumping here but NOT at the head.  Often the pump will pump low pressure only which leads people into a false sense of security. You check at the head ! That's it.... Nowhere else !! 

I prime the pump at fitting. But this still doesn't guaratee oil pressure.   I don't use Vaseline because I don't want it in my oil.  It's not even made of Petroleum anymore. (Try.. It's not even flammable).. 

I've also tried the trick of pressuring the frame at the fill hole with an airline with success a few times.  This a messy job and always ends to my shop being covered in oil.  Not an easy job to do alone at all and it's hard to get volunteers too  :)

Sometimes you get lucky and it just primes up straight away.   Sometimes you have to keep going.  I always fill up my rocker cover with oil through the valve insepction caps before I go through the routine. 

Sometimes (Like the 650L I'm doing now after a gearbox gear change), just won't prime up. Its a new pump too.  I think I didn't prime it enough. I assumed the air pressure trick would work as it had in past so many times so I didn't bother meticulously priming it..  It didn't work though. 

So now I'v had to take off the cover and prime it again manually with an oil can whilst turning the gear.  And got to wait for a new gasket !!!  DAMMMM !!   

It never pays to be lazy.... Not with motors anyway. 

last note.     When removing the clutch cover, it's easy for the small aluminium dowl to fall out which connects the oil pump with the clutch cover.  Be careful with this. 


Ted

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You have to pressurize through the hose from the rocker box into the oil tank , otherwise your pressurizing both sides of the pump , in and out at the same time , as the air would also go through this hose into the rocker box when trying to do it through the dipstick hole.

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I use the clamp on the hose to clamp it around my airchuck. I spurt spurt air blasts while poring 1L directly into valve cover. 1L already in frame. Plug out, I have someone spinning my crank via flywheel. And I just spurt spurt while pouring the second liter and while someone else is rotating motor.
I never had a problem packing with grease tho. No greases I have ignite into flames. But melt into oil so...
Joe makes an excellent point. That man "sees" in schematics!

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2 hours ago, JoeRC51 said:

You have to pressurize through the hose from the rocker box into the oil tank , otherwise your pressurizing both sides of the pump , in and out at the same time , as the air would also go through this hose into the rocker box when trying to do it through the dipstick hole.

Yes !! Of course.  But I have the tappet covers loose so I can keep the cam wet.  :)

I've never had it so bad that ive needed so much pressure to get it primed until today.  So I always used the filler with a rag around a airgun for time saving.   I'll give it a go through the hose though. Far less messy. 

I dont think removing the plug is necessary. At 'starter motor' engine speed the decompressor is always activated. 

It certainly can't harm though.

 

Edited by MotoTed

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Decomp or not there's still compression.
With plug out I can rotate the motor 5x just by sneezing.
Seems like a very simple thing to do to for sure get oil pressure. Anything to take off to make things easier I try to do. It helps me get the desired job done with a more certain quality. I don't "guess" why its not working, cause it always does/has.
You'll get it. Just a pesky air bubble the size of a skittle somewhere.
And I don't do it starting speed. I put a socket on a drill so all the person helping me has to do is hold it there letting the motor spin. Its definitely faster and more consistent than using a hand wrench turning 1/4 turn by 1/4 turn.

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Well yeah. Plug out is better.  But In a shop environment, saving time is key...  And 9/10 I'ts not required.  

I usually disable the ignition (kill switch in this case), put the battery on a boost pack and turn the motor. 

But you're absolutely right. It's the better to pull the plug.  And in this case,  It looks like I'll be going down that route. 

I'm working alone 95% of the time.  So a lot of the 'tricks' I can't do.  

I'll chase out that skittle and nail it to the wall..    heheh  :) 

Thanks for the wise words :thumbsup:

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Put a drill in a vice a lock the trigger to ON. It'll stay where its supposed to. Put the bike on a stand so its standing 90° not leaning on the kickstand. Vice on a milkcrate. Put socket on. Lockdown vice. Pull trigger and lock it. You could let go and make a grilled cheese and come back in an hour and that motor still be spinning.
What I'm getting at is both your hands will be available for oil pouring and compressed air blasts.
You got this.
I know it sucks because deep down inside you know you should be done...

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My friends... 

All is now good. 

I removed the pump and primed it thorughly by hand.  I then pumped compressed air through the cam cover vent hose into the frame.   I turned the bike over on the starter motor with the plug in. 

Within 15 seconds there was great oil pressure at the head. 

In my experiene, the key is metaculously priming the pump off the bike and following the good advice here to blow through the vent hose, not the filler hole.    And maybe having a 10 Bar compressor at my workshop  ;)  

 

Edited by MotoTed

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Ya good move. I didn't know what bike you had. The plug out method is my way for the R. I probably wouldn't pull the plug if I had a starter motor doing the work for me.

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