Trail Map Feedback

[2TrakR]

Looking for some input on a map (that I made)... Here's a map of an ORV trail.

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Public/Geels_Sample.pdf

Same map, but using different symbology to better represent the various trails and not relying on just color:

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Public/Geels_Sample2.pdf

Given the assumptions below, can you answer the questions that follow?

Do you have other questions that should be in the list. Additionally, do you have suggestions on how to improve the map?

If you were to compare it to the one the DNR offers, which do you prefer and what would you change about either, if anything?

http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialdatalibrary/pdf_maps/trail_maps/orv/geels.pdf

Assumptions for target audience:

Person has an ORV (example: ATV, off-road motorcycle, RUV, Dune Buggy).

Person desires to legally operate said ORV.

Questions the map should answer:

1. Where can they ride?

2. Where are the trails?

3. How do they access them?

4. What roads do the trails cross in case of break-down or related need?

5. What trails are available for their specific ORV (ie ATV trail, Motorcycle trail, full size vehicle)?

6. Where are the parking areas?

7. Where are towns/gas stations/services?

8. Will their ORV be able to navigate the system on their available fuel range?

For fun, here's the same map but showing soil type and contour lines (tan is sandy, dark blue is much, brown is loam, blue is water)

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Public/Geels_SoilSampleTopo.pdf

As you can tell, I'm no cartographer, but I've read about them on the Internet. ;-)

[kzoo]

Looking for some input on a map (that I made)... Here's a map of an ORV trail.

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Pub...els_Sample.pdf

Same map, but using different symbology to better represent the various trails and not relying on just color:

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Pub...els_Sample2.pdf

Given the assumptions below, can you answer the questions that follow?

Do you have other questions that should be in the list. Additionally, do you have suggestions on how to improve the map?

If you were to compare it to the one the DNR offers, which do you prefer and what would you change about either, if anything?

http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialda.../orv/geels.pdf

Assumptions for target audience:

Person has an ORV (example: ATV, off-road motorcycle, RUV, Dune Buggy).

Person desires to legally operate said ORV.

Questions the map should answer:

1. Where can they ride?

2. Where are the trails?

3. How do they access them?

4. What roads do the trails cross in case of break-down or related need?

5. What trails are available for their specific ORV (ie ATV trail, Motorcycle trail, full size vehicle)?

6. Where are the parking areas?

7. Where are towns/gas stations/services?

8. Will their ORV be able to navigate the system on their available fuel range?

For fun, here's the same map but showing soil type and contour lines (tan is sandy, dark blue is much, brown is loam, blue is water)

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Pub...els_SoilSampleTop.pdf

As you can tell, I'm no cartographer, but I've read about them on the Internet. ;-)

Your .mac links don't work...

[2TrakR]

Links should be fixed now. Dang me for copy/paste!

[Lurch42]

Yeah I can't get that last one to come up, but that's okay.

I always liked the DNR maps because they keep the township grid on them. Each square is a mile. Easy to approximate how far it is from point A to point B by counting grids and obviously adding some for twisty trail.

I would try to add in the grid, even if really faint on the map.

Other than that, I like your first example better than the second. As long as I have a color printer...which I do.

DNR's map is easiest to read with a b/w printer. The MCCCT/ORVT on yours would get muddled. Maybe we just assume that everyone has access to color and don't worry about it.

I much prefer your map for overall readability...the different emphasis on the roads/trails/streams make it much easier to read. Just add a faint grid on there and I'd be sold.

Thanks for the hard work!

Eric

[Lurch42]

OOooohh.. Now I see it!

Get rid of the dark blue/different soil types, keep the elevation/topo lines, add a faint twp grid, and use the trail legend from your first example, and I'd love it!!!

Either way, they are nice maps.

Thanks again.

Eric

[2TrakR]

Get rid of the dark blue/different soil types, keep the elevation/topo lines, add a faint twp grid, and use the trail legend from your first example, and I'd love it!!!

There definitely seems to be a niche for folks that like a ton of data on their maps. Which is cool. When I'm putting a Dual Sport ride together, I take 11x17 maps that include public land ownership and section lines (the twp grid you refer to), so I can appreciate where you're coming from.

Would you prefer 11x17 or 8.5x11 sized maps? Could you print 11x17 or would you need to be able to print the smaller sized?

From your description, this map would be closer to your preference?

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Public/Geels_Sample5.pdf

If you want the elevation data listed instead of just the contours:

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Public/Geels_Sample6.pdf

[lowry]

Very nice. I like sample two the best with the green triangles. They would be easier to read if you had to print in black and white too.

Are you doing those in illustrator?

Keep up the good work.

[2TrakR]

Are you doing those in illustrator?

Nope, but it'd be quite a bit purtier if I were (and if I had the artistic ability). I did, however, run the CCC's maps through Illustrator as part of the (long) process in creating their mapbook. These maps are different.

Want to be clear, these map samples are not destined for the CCC's mapbook, although any feedback (like the excellent stuff already provided) may be used to help improve their products.

[lowry]

Nope, but it'd be quite a bit purtier if I were (and if I had the artistic ability). I did, however, run the CCC's maps through Illustrator as part of the (long) process in creating their mapbook. These maps are different.

Want to be clear, these map samples are not destined for the CCC's mapbook, although any feedback (like the excellent stuff already provided) may be used to help improve their products.

Well they look nice whatever you used. If you need any help in the future with maps or other ccc related projects let me know, I'm pretty good with illustrator.

[2TrakR]

Wow, pretty good is an understatement.

I'll have to see what you'd charge to vectorize GLDS's logo (the motion blur bike/rider is a bitmap and that drives me nuts).

[ulmanb]

I always liked the DNR maps because they keep the township grid on them. Each square is a mile. Easy to approximate how far it is from point A to point B by counting grids and obviously adding some for twisty trail.

I agree, often it helps to be able to estimate mileage and I use the grids for exactly that.

I prefer to keep only the necessary info. Many people will print this in Black and White, so using different symbology for each route would work better.

Also I prefer without the topo lines or elevations. Again many may print in B&W and the gray topo lines would further confuse the map.

The reason I print B&W is that it seems to me that the colored lines (red on the DNR maps) seems to bleed/run/disappear easily when they get wet when printed on the typical cheap home printer.

I know this last comment is kind of another direction, but I really like the maps for the Denton/Leota system where each intersection is numbered on the map and at the intersections on the trail. Makes it much easier to figure where you are going and where you have been. Would be nice to see this on more systems. I know this is a different topic, but food for thought.

[PumpkinHumper]

Yea I like this one

http://homepage.mac.com/jvalley/.Pub...ls_Sample6.pdf

The dashed red ORV line I think would look better as a solid line. Might stand out better. But the dashed line does seem to show a little more detail. Where the trail runs close to another section of trail it tends to get lost. If the line font was a little finer it may help some. Sometimes its hard to tell if trail sections actually come together or if they just run close to each other.

The green triangles on the MCCCT trail are nice. A little busy but nice. Especialy on the sections of Mccct that share ORV trail. Those always tended to get lost on the old maps where the colors would blend together.

I really like the new legand on the bottom RH corner. That should really help answer the question of who belongs where.

I like the 8.5x11 maps myself. They are easier to scale down to fit in my bar mounted map holder.

[PumpkinHumper]

I know this last comment is kind of another direction, but I really like the maps for the Denton/Leota system where each intersection is numbered on the map and at the intersections on the trail. Makes it much easier to figure where you are going and where you have been. Would be nice to see this on more systems. I know this is a different topic, but food for thought.

I agree. I really like this. Granted now that I have a gps that is pretty much a mute point. But I was out to Grand Travers and they had the interesctions numbered. It was nice. Especialy since I had never been there and didn't have my gps back then.

Also.....making our DNR triangles reflective would really help is nightriding nutjobs when we are out in the snow in the winter and cant find the trail buried under the snow

[flem]

I'd add the township grids and I really do likr the loops that have sections and intersections numbered, drummond island is that way too

[flem]

I do think that with this trails expansion that the CCC/ DNR should start a numbering system on all trails make nav. easy

[flem]

looking at the maps again I think the line weight of the ORV ROUTE markers should be thicker or use smaller dots closer together, for better readability. the green triangles don't read very well, against the read investigate other break patterns to delineate the MCCCT

[2TrakR]

the green triangles don't read very well, against the read investigate other break patterns to delineate the MCCCT

Do you have any suggestions on what might work better?

[sndmn2]

I could only get one map to come up. No.2. I like it. I don't know what the others look like but I like the direction this is going. I'm not that concerned about the grid. To much will just cloud up the page. My reasoning is this. The maps give the length of the trail. The grid only works if you are at a known land mark or location to relate to. So if your map is marked intersection #1 then your trail will also have to be marked #1. Topo lines are not needed in my opinion. I think if you try to do this so that its easy to read in b&w it will never work. The lines will mesh with one onother. It will need to be done with the understanding that its meant to be in color.

P.S. Marked trail Intersections are not needed on Drummond. Thats half the fun. Everyone looking at each other asking if anyone knows where the hell we are. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/sndmn2/Drummond05008-2.jpg

How about landmarks instead.

Keep up the good work. Does this mean I"ll need to upgrade the CD's ?

[screag01]

Initial perusal:

The info grid in the lower right corner has good info and is pretty cool.

Using the layers tab in Acrobat, I was turning layers on and off to give you as much/little info as you want. (cool) Unless this will either not be available in the final published versions or if that is only valid during on screen viewing and not printing. (then nevermind:bonk: )

This is very useful for ex. with the topo data, nice to have in certain instances. But can get cluttery at times in some b&w 8x10 printings.

I definitely like the way the trail system(s) are the more the focal point reagrding the overall scaling. On the current/older DNR maps there is quite a bit of the extraneous surrounding area's included. This can cause poorer resolution printings sometimes when you crop and enlarge.

Very nicely done.

[flem]

a double hass mark line or a diffrernt repeating pattern/ double dash ,diamond dot,dot ,diamond --*--*--* or **-**-** or some other pattern that doesn't have the directional connotations a triangle has. I'd have to dig out my old human factors books, but there is recognized signage patterns(standards) that are the most recognizable when printed in one color, the military did alot of this research, I'll dig through the basement this weekend