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Harley DEFINATLY entering MX & Enduro !

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Im here in Orlando this week at a software convention for a company called SAP. I ran into some HD employees at a sponsored lunch and I told him that I was bummend that there was / is only one north American company producing dirt bikes. When asked why, he said " hold a sec" and i sorta lost track of the conversation. I noticed he was working with his cell phone and all of a sudden he shows me this message from last december that announced over the dealer intranet that the Beule ( spelling ? ) divison had been working on a 250cc and a 450 cc. The weight goal was aggresive with the 450 coming in under 215 wet !... no shit.

The idea is to start building brand loyalty as soon as possible with younger riders. Makes sense.. e.g. - Japan... and they are investing quite a bit of money in the effort.

We shall see.... I love my Yam.... but hey, who knows, they might pull it off.

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The AMA will probably require the smokers or even Jap thumpers to drag a cinder block around to make the Harleys competetive. That's basically what they've done in all other types of racing that Harley has gotten into.

Craigus

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maybe you forgot that harley was one of the first to run inverted forks when they were running riders in the 70's. don't bash what you can't remember....

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Not meaning to hjack, but i guess it will do, but what the hell.

BMW have submitted plans to the patent office for an offroad bike with a 450 engine. I guess they plan on taking on KTM in the offroad market lke they have with the super enduros. Now that should be a bike worthy of seeing.:censored:

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Not meaning to hjack, but i guess it will do, but what the hell.

BMW have submitted plans to the patent office for an offroad bike with a 450 engine. I guess they plan on taking on KTM in the offroad market lke they have with the super enduros. Now that should be a bike worthy of seeing.:censored:

BMW also made a 650 Supermoto bike. It looks like it weighs 350 lbs...

It's called the "super-G" or the "650-G" or something stupid like that.

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I'm interested in how this turns one turns out. Is it Buell or Harley-Davidson that is working on the bike? Yes I know Harley owns Buell but which one is it officially gonna be? I thought it was Buell, and if so how much input will Harley have on it anyways? Wouldn't surprise me if they went heavier into the Supermoto and Flat Track market since most are using MX bikes in both.

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Oh man, I can't wait to see them. Would be nice to see a little more variation in MX bikes. Would be great if Can-Am had a MX bike coming out soon too.

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I'm interested in how this turns one turns out. Is it Buell or Harley-Davidson that is working on the bike? Yes I know Harley owns Buell but which one is it officially gonna be? I thought it was Buell, and if so how much input will Harley have on it anyways? Wouldn't surprise me if they went heavier into the Supermoto and Flat Track market since most are using MX bikes in both.

Harley does not own Buell. Eric Buell owns Buell. They have a development partnership and Harley supplies engines.

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Even if this idea reaches fruition, unless Buell significantly improves their dealer network and the associated rep, this plan isn't going to go far.

The HD dealers and techs already basically do their best to avoid working on the Buell sportbikes.:ride: It's not like they're going to be more pumped up to work on a bike they're even less familiar with than the Lightning/Firebolt/Ulysses platform.

If HD completely splits off the Buell dealer network then maybe we'll be talking about Buell dirtbikes in 5 years. I'm not holding my breath.:censored:

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Oh please NO!! Not more harley rules. I been there for 40 years, harley running the AMA. Vaun Beals was chairman or the board for AMA and CEO of harley for many many years at the same time. Thats why the AMA (especialy flattrack) is so screwed up now. That is also why flattrack is going down the tubes. Don't get me wrong, I had two HD XR750s and the AMA made sure we won, well the AMA made sure...same dif. If the AMA ( harley rules) does it, it is not called cheating. (sort of) But I don't want to run my MX bikes with no spark plugs in them or what ever the AMA does to make sure harley wins.

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Lots of info here, not sure what to believe. Harley Davidson bought 51% of Buell years ago, so technically, they own Buell. Harley never produced an MX bike. That was a rebadged Aeremacchie (sp?) that H-D imported. The were miserable dirt bikes and never competetive at any track I ever saw or read about. They were only sold for a short time anyway and nobody missed them when they were gone.

For those that believe H-D could produce a bike with all the cash they're rolling in these days, you may want to reconsider that. A few years ago, H-D wanted to try Superbike racing. In a joint venture with Ford, they hired one of the top Rousch Racing engineers to design the motor, they got the best chassis guys to do the chassis and Miguel Duhamel at the top of his game to ride the thing. It sucked. The thing rarely ran well, was slow, fragile and quirky. Even though you were supposed to be able to buy a street version of any bike raced in AMA Superbike, I never heard of anyone seeing one, let alone buying one. The magazines got ahold of one "street" bike version and estimated it would cost $50,000. That was at a time when a GSXR 750 was going for under $6,000 and was a far superior bike to the Harley. Harley got tired of getting beat week in and week out and threw in the towel after a couple years. Nobody seemed to miss them then, either.

For anyone thinking of calling the ultra-fast Vance and Hines H-D NHRA pro/stock bikes a Harley effort, better want to do a little research on that. They are nothing more than cubic-dollar, billet motored monsters that don't even have one H-D part anywhere on them. They bear no resemblance to any Harley that has ever been made, or even will be made. If you think I'm off my rocker, ask any owner of a V-Rod if he'd be willing to race a similar displacement Japanese bike for pink slips. Not likely.

Harley bikes and the people who own them are into form, not function and that's a fact. That's ok, think of them as a two-wheeled street rod if you want to, they are more for for taking your significant other on a leisurley cruise for burgers than for seeing who has more under the hood.

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The AMA will probably require the smokers or even Jap thumpers to drag a cinder block around...

Some folks are very carefull to not buy a first year production MXer. Using my calcumalater, I've ciphered that it'll take (10) years for HD to sell thier first MXers.

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It seems we are living in interesting times where bikes are concerned. Buell, Arctic Cat, Polaris, Can-Am, BMW all rumored to be entering the market, some sooner rather than later. Aprilia has a cool bike out, Husqvarna is threatening to get back some market share, etc., etc...

I wonder how long before Triumph looks into it. BTW, I wonder how many folks scoffed at the idea of Triumph getting back into motocycles a few years back? And now? Some of the best bikes going...

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I'm a big fan of HD road bikes but I gotta say I rode the HD off roaders when they made them and they better do a better job of its a waste of time and $$

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Lots of info here, not sure what to believe. Harley Davidson bought 51% of Buell years ago, so technically, they own Buell. Harley never produced an MX bike. That was a rebadged Aeremacchie (sp?) that H-D imported. The were miserable dirt bikes and never competetive at any track I ever saw or read about. They were only sold for a short time anyway and nobody missed them when they were gone.

For those that believe H-D could produce a bike with all the cash they're rolling in these days, you may want to reconsider that. A few years ago, H-D wanted to try Superbike racing. In a joint venture with Ford, they hired one of the top Rousch Racing engineers to design the motor, they got the best chassis guys to do the chassis and Miguel Duhamel at the top of his game to ride the thing. It sucked. The thing rarely ran well, was slow, fragile and quirky. Even though you were supposed to be able to buy a street version of any bike raced in AMA Superbike, I never heard of anyone seeing one, let alone buying one. The magazines got ahold of one "street" bike version and estimated it would cost $50,000. That was at a time when a GSXR 750 was going for under $6,000 and was a far superior bike to the Harley. Harley got tired of getting beat week in and week out and threw in the towel after a couple years. Nobody seemed to miss them then, either.

For anyone thinking of calling the ultra-fast Vance and Hines H-D NHRA pro/stock bikes a Harley effort, better want to do a little research on that. They are nothing more than cubic-dollar, billet motored monsters that don't even have one H-D part anywhere on them. They bear no resemblance to any Harley that has ever been made, or even will be made. If you think I'm off my rocker, ask any owner of a V-Rod if he'd be willing to race a similar displacement Japanese bike for pink slips. Not likely.

Harley bikes and the people who own them are into form, not function and that's a fact. That's ok, think of them as a two-wheeled street rod if you want to, they are more for for taking your significant other on a leisurley cruise for burgers than for seeing who has more under the hood.

All good points, but I would think that the current players would fight HD to them from taking this part of the AMA over... could be wrong, but they sure would fight it.

As for the power, quality,, your also corrrect, they were the laughing stock for the years they participated.... Im gonna go with the glass half full and say that may have learned thier lesson and wont waste the resources unless they know there is a solid chance that they could at least be competative within a fews years.

Also, while number of moving parts in 4 strokes vs. Stink bikes is obviously quite different, and 4 stroke technology has progressed to amazing levels by all the relevent players, I would submit to you that the shear level of complication / number of parts / heat / stress ( although dirt bikes have their own major engineering challenges, most of which are far from trivial ) etc...in a GP bike is of a much more sunstantial nature, resulting in higher - longer cost and time. IMO a dirt bike can be built with relativly low cost, strait forward - off the shelf parts suppliers -Oliens- Kiyaba- etc... All this netted against the cost of developing and fabricating, testin / debugging and deploying a competative GP race team .... i would suspect that there is a significant cost differentail between that and an MX team. Dont get confused here, top end MX teams are not cheap, but from what Ive seen and heard, they cost about a quarter of a GP team to operate. Read HD's annual report,,, man they are floating in cash right now.

Now, throw that into the business model that is absolutly proven by the Japs over the last 3 going on 4 decades with starting young guys out on .. Honda elsenore,, YZ's etc..... that translates into brand identification and a lifetime of loyalty for a relatively low cost.

It would be really stupid for them to not take the lessons learned from the prior debauticle and apply them here were applicable.

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For Harley or Buell to consider making something that has to be performance oriented is laughable. Their bikes are as far from performance as a Chinese bike...wait a sec, aren't their bikes made in China now??? :censored:

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For Harley or Buell to consider making something that has to be performance oriented is laughable. Their bikes are as far from performance as a Chinese bike...wait a sec, aren't their bikes made in China now??? :ride:

LOL. exactly what i was thinking while reading through this thread.

i find it funny when the Harly folks pull up next to me and start reving their piles like they are 2 smokes, and then get smoked by me on my little 636 ninja.:censored: .....and its COMPLETLY stock, short of frame/swing arm sliders.

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