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4 Corner LED problem?

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I am trying to run LED's at all 4 corners. I have 2 Superbrite(literally-2) LED's on either side of the taillight in the rear:

Rear-Shot.jpg

and as soon as I replace the stock front incandescent units with LED's the flasher no longer works correctly and clicks inside and both signals stay on at 1/2 bright? It's a K&S Electronic 3 wire unit. It has a ground. I believe I should not need resistors or relays (I believe I could be wrong too)? What am I missing.

Do I need a IC Relaypg026_icrelay400.jpg for the whole setup to function properly? :applause:

Thanks in advance.

-John

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If I read your post correctly, you simply replaced the incandescent turn signal lamps with LEDs.

The flasher is just thermal device that opens and closes its contacts as the current heats the element. Once the element cools, the contact returns to the opposite state. This creates the flashing turn signals.

LEDs have an extremely low current draw. Because they have a relativley high resistance value and that inhibits current flow. So I believe that the flasher element is not heating up and changing state.

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If I read your post correctly, you simply replaced the incandescent turn signal lamps with LEDs.

The flasher is just thermal device that opens and closes its contacts as the current heats the element. Once the element cools, the contact returns to the opposite state. This creates the flashing turn signals.

LEDs have an extremely low current draw. Because they have a relativley high resistance value and that inhibits current flow. So I believe that the flasher element is not heating up and changing state.

i agree.

i do believe there are solid state "flasher" available that solve this problem.

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Well? It's an electronic unit that is supposed to function properly with LED and incandescent lights. Requires very little current draw to function properly. At least that is what I have been lead to believe form the retailer and other retailers.

These are the specs I was provided:

K&S Technologies DOT Approved Motorcycle Flasher Relay

This flasher relay can work on BOTH LED and incandescent bulb (filament style) turn signals or marker lights.

-DOT Approved

-3 Pole (3 Pin)

-IC Type (not mechanical)

-Mounting adapter, ground wire, and wire harness included

-Works on both LED and regular filament bulb turn signals

-maximum operating voltage: 16v DC

-minimum operating voltage: 8v DC

-maximum operating amperage: 15a

-minimum operating amperage: 0.1a

With a total of 10 LED's @2.6v/20ma per side (a close estimate I found for these) they would function properly? I just want to correct the problem. I am NOT a great electrical guy but do ok normally? I'm missing something and need a little help that's all.

Thanks much!

-John

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From your post===> " -minimum operating amperage: 0.1a

With a total of 10 LED's @2.6v/20ma per side (a close estimate I found for these) "

There's your problem, 20ma is .0020 amps. Ten on at a time would be .0200 amps. Your blinker thingy is rated for minimum of .100 amps. Add a 50 ohm resister in parallel to each set and it will work fine.

You may do "OK" electrically but you should go back and take 9th grade math over.:applause:

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20mA is actually .020 Amps, "milli" meaning 10e-3.

20mA is the typical rating for a single LED. if you have 10 on each side then you would have a .200 Amp draw.

according to your post have you confirmed the flasher is functioning properly and you were using this system with incandescents. is this correct?

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From your post===> " -minimum operating amperage: 0.1a

With a total of 10 LED's @2.6v/20ma per side (a close estimate I found for these) "

There's your problem, 20ma is .0020 amps. Ten on at a time would be .0200 amps. Your blinker thingy is rated for minimum of .100 amps. Add a 50 ohm resister in parallel to each set and it will work fine.

You may do "OK" electrically but you should go back and take 9th grade math over.:lol:

Your 9th grade comment that follwed was not needed.:applause:

You obviously need a refresher since your math doesn't compute?:applause:

20ma (.020a) x 10LEDS = .200a - .1a over what I need for a miniumum requirement for the flasher. The reason the flasher worked with the original incandescents was just that. The "1" incandescent on each side provided enough draw to keepthe flasher working.

What confuses me is that if I plug both LED's into the front they bleed over on each other (both come on at the same time.) I am assuming they are doing this over the ground they share.

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OOPS! I'm on drugs right now. Vicadins for my foot. I should have known better than try and post.:applause:

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20mA is actually .020 Amps, "milli" meaning 10e-3.

20mA is the typical rating for a single LED. if you have 10 on each side then you would have a .200 Amp draw.

according to your post have you confirmed the flasher is functioning properly and you were using this system with incandescents. is this correct?

Yes it works fine with the incan's. Put em back on and wham. Works fine. I'll play with it some more tonight before 2am and before 2-many :applause: .:lol:

I'll try to update the thread once I have more concrete info. I have some resistors on the shelf at home. I'll see if they help at all.

Until tomorrow..:applause:

-John

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I put LEDs on all four corners also. The bulbs were 3 volt I believe so I just put four of them together wired in series to handle the 12 volts. I have eight of them on each of the front hand guards and four on each side of the license plate. I found some flasher LEDs at an electronic shop near me ( allelectronics.com ) and use one of them for the flasher. Works great.

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I put LEDs on all four corners also. The bulbs were 3 volt I believe so I just put four of them together wired in series to handle the 12 volts. I have eight of them on each of the front hand guards and four on each side of the license plate. I found some flasher LEDs at an electronic shop near me ( allelectronics.com ) and use one of them for the flasher. Works great.

Never got to the resistors last night. We had a snow storm dump 10+ of snow on us so had to play with the kids.

You have any pictures of what you put on your bike? Layout of how you did it?

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I don't know how to post pictures now but will try to find out. Basically I just used the baja designs kit and replaced the turnsignals with LEDs. I have handguards like on your XR400 picture. I drilled holes in the black plastic about 5/8ths of an inch apart along the handguards in front of the back aluminum piece. The holes are big enough for the LEDs to be pushed through from the back of the plastic. The shoulder on the LEDs keeps them from pushing all the way through. They are wired in series in two groups of four. I have eight lights on each handguard. An insulating rubber strip ( from an inner tube ) is placed between the back of the LEDs and the aluminum piece. When the aluminum piece is attached the lights can't fall back out. The flasher LED is wired in instead of the standard flasher. On the back I bought two small housings that have four LEDs in them. I have one of these mounted on each side of the license plate. I know this setup won't pass the street legal test but I haven't had any problems yet.

PS, Snow huh, I wish we'd get a little rain out here to knock down the dust.

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I'l try this again at the risk of making an ass of myself again, but are your LEDs wired in series or parallel?

(Not only I'm I still taking the Vikes, I wash them down with some cherry wine.)

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I feel for ya XR, I have been in physical therapy for a few months and somehow jacked up my sciatic nerve:crazy:During one of my visits! Was on 1000mg Vicadin for 4 days. Whooopie!!!!:applause::lol::cry: Hope ya feel better soon...:applause:

Do you mean as in side to side (left vs right) or front to rear as a circuit. I am guessing you mean side to side. Their wired right into the factory wirig harness. 1996 XR250L. (My Dads bike) Haven't changed a thing from factory.(except of course the electronic flasher)

Once I get his completed then I will jump on my 2001 XR400. That's a different story obviously becasue it never had signals. I have a complete custom harness\bar unit\Rectifier etc. from ProCycle I will be using and a new stator from Ricky Stator. So I can wire it however I like.

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I was talking about the individual LEDs at the corners. Front set would be in parallel with the rear set, but did you also wire the the individual LEDs at the rear and front in parallel. Wiring them in parallel will draw more current than in series.

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I was talking about the individual LEDs at the corners. Front set would be in parallel with the rear set, but did you also wire the the individual LEDs at the rear and front in parallel. Wiring them in parallel will draw more current than in series.

The rears are wired in parallel. I'll have to dig in the manual and see how the harness is layed out to see how the fronts tie to the rears. Weekend project on my agenda. I am planning on pickin up the correct resistors today.

I'll let ya know.

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