Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Thank you quads. 1 reason Why FH is closed for winter

Recommended Posts

I'm not a geologist but from viewing the photos I wouldn't put the blame soley on quads. I have a walnut ranch and have cattle grazing. I use an atv to feed them and I can tell you this it does not harm the orchard. We have a MX practice track and the bikes do far more damage then the sport quads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looks like deep rutted single track to me. i don't own any quads, but i don't think they did the damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem definition is very important. Yes those are quad damages photos. Yes they do dig up deep single ruts when they get stuck, look at the width of that deep rut, The damage is also all on quad heavy use trails. They are all the lower trails primarily Trail 1 and 7.

Good news is the USFS officially recognizes the Foresthill Trail Maintenance Volunteer drive

"Want to volunteer? Send an email to: friendsofforesthillohvtrails@gmail.com. Local riders have provided this collecting point for volunteer names and contact info. The Forest Service will use this account as the contact list for volunteers once training dates and locations are known. "

We have created a Volunteer call up brochure and are looking to pass this out to local shops especially Quad shops. We need to energize the Quad community to help repair the trails and armor them more for wet season use. We are also organizing a non-profit donation based group to take donations for trail repair materials and donate the $$ to the USFS for designated trail repair and armoring projects.

Yes at the same time we are advising the USFS that Quads are twice and three times heavier then MC's are. A winter time quad restriction would be a prudent idea.

there is a meeting at FH ranger district March 15. Please plan to attend. a Notice will be posted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Volunteer program is the only way to save this from happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of notes. One, I don't see cattle doing the damage. Those ruts are huge and while MC's used over and over on the same line can increase the size of the rut a quad with it's weight and tire size will cause more damage than a MC. As far as BB mentioning that the bikes on his ranches mx track cause more damage, I can only guess that the majority of riding completed on this mx track is from a bike and not a quad. I also assume that a quad used on the ranch is not going balls to the wall as quad riders do in an OHV area. Don't want to be overly combative here but the reality is, these quads are ruining some great trails and not giving damm about it.

MIR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree that aggressive wannabe racer quad riders are more likely to dig up a USFS trail, then a farmer quad rider is going to dig up his ranch.

Those of us who have witnessed the quad invasion over these last 3 years at Foresthill and know these trails and have seen winter dirt bike damage in the past ...we have first hand experience of what the quad invasion has brought at FH.

I'm not being negative, but I won't take the blame for those 12"-14" ruts on trails 1 and 7. I have seen young aggro male Quad riders and their attidudes on the trails ,and I have seen good natured Quad families and riders too. I am hopefull many of the good quad families will step up to the plate and help Volunteer to repair trails 1 and 7 at FH.

meanwhile I want the USFS to recognize this is a Lower trail problem, not a system wide problem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

read the full closure here: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/news/07_news_releases/07_feb_15_arrd_ohv_closure.shtml

note that USFS District ranger Jan Cutts is interested in finding long term solutions

FORESTHILL…..The Forest Service will be restricting motorized use due to wet weather conditions on the OHV trails and roads in the Sugar Pine area of Foresthill on the American River Ranger District of the Tahoe National Forest. This closure will be in place on February 20, 2007 and remain in place until conditions dry sufficiently to protect all resources and provide for safety when motorized use resumes.

Recent years have seen increased use of trail and road systems during times when the trails and roads are most susceptible to sustained damaged. Dynamic sets of interconnected factors of trail and road use during wet weather and wet soil conditions can lead to deterioration of trail and road surfaces and soil mobilization that eventually have deleterious effects on water quality. Additionally, because use during wet conditions has increased, the compacted surfaces are being broken through leading to more problems. The wetter the surfaces during motorized and wheeled use the fewer options there are for mitigating the problems; impacts can rarely be dealt with during wet conditions. The amount of use during wet conditions is increasing at the same time the budget has rapidly been declining. A lower budget has also prevented the District’s ability to conduct routine maintenance on the trail system during the most effective time periods. Add new maintenance problems to the problems that have been getting worse due to lack of funding, and resource damage increases, as does the cost of repairs. The District is rapidly reaching the point when it can no longer balance uses with the resource damage. District Ranger Jan Cutts says “we can not let this situation develop to the point where there are impacts to water quality”.

Ranger Cutts continues “Water quality and long term trail sustainability are 2 of 3 chief concerns. Public safety is also of great importance to us.” The Foresthill OHV area supports a wide variety of riders with different abilities, from expert to new riders, to small children. When trails are saturated with water, as they have been this winter, illegal OHV riding increases when riders get off the trail as soon as possible and either cross country ride or use roads for which they are not licensed to ride or designed for OHV use. Cross country riding, or off-route riding, is not legal here, and it causes additional maintenance and/or resource impacts. Ranger Cutts states that “Rider safety is of great concern and importance to us, and another important factor to balance in making decisions about resource management strategies.”

The Forest Service wants to hear from the public. “We had to close the trails last year for similar reasons” states Ranger Cutts, “and we are seeing that the root cause of the problems concerning water quality, long-term trail sustainability, and public safety, are not easing up or going away.” As part of their effort to develop long-term wet weather management strategies for the OHV trail system, the Forest Service is hosting a public meeting on March 15, 2007 at 6:00 in Foresthill (location yet to be determined), to discuss how the motorized use of saturated soils can be best managed in the future in accordance with required mandates and laws. Ranger Cutts says “At this meeting, I want to foster understanding of all the factors involved in management of this important recreation area and begin collaboratively developing strategies for long-term management of the trail system. I believe we can find a way to meet the needs of the resources and provide sustainable and sufficient OHV recreation opportunities for the future.”

Space and time are very limited, and so it is requested that groups select a spokesperson that can attend on behalf of the group and bring focus to the discussion and interactions.

For additional information concerning this project, contact Mo Tebbe or Mark Lambert by telephone at (530) 478-6254 or by email at mtebbe@fs.fed.us or mdlambert01@fs.fed.us. Updates on the closure will be posted on the Tahoe National Forest web page at www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like there a few here in denial.

When I look at those pictures I see damage from both types of vehicles. The reality is that this place looked the same the last time I rode there six years ago. Seems funny that they are just now deciding that it's an issue.

I feel for the businesses in the town of Foresthill. This closure is going to hurt them the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the pictures are also limited to less then 2% of the trail surface mileage if that, and all of it is the lower trails #1 and 7.

Denial of that fact leads to total system closure for what amounts to be less then 2% of the trail mileage in disrepair.

the reason this has become a today problem is the intersection of two fundamentals: dramatic increase in QUAD use and dramatic decrease in funding. That coupled with the FH unique soils - Trails 1 and 7 keep moisture and go thru a freeze thaw cycle that QUADs love to play in like pig slop....and you have the mess were in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can remember when trail 5 was total mess too, and yet no quads can go on that one either.

Also, the reality is that just as there is an increase in quad owners the same goes for motorcycles. I've riden for 27 years now and can tell you that this sport has exploded greater in the past five years than id did in all my 22 previous years on cycles. It's insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see 2 and 4 wheel damage there. So it would be safe to say, we (OHV operators) are to blame! Can we stop pointing fingers now and find a fix before it's closed for good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see 2 and 4 wheel damage there. So it would be safe to say, we (OHV operators) are to blame! Can we stop pointing fingers now and find a fix before it's closed for good!

that point of view is fine by me, I just want all stakeholders to recognize the QUAD issue and that the damage they create is different and more intense at Foresthill then any where else in the entire designated Seirra Nevada woods OHV system in all of Northern California.

I ride or did ride every weekend for 3 years, many many many days at FH, more then anyone on this board. The boots on the ground experience is QUADs have caused significant new and different damage on trails 1 and 7 and those pictures prove it and yet don't quite show it the true way.

Regardless, Our only OHV community reponse is through Volunteer Trail Maintenance efforts and by Verbal pressure on the USFS to take measured action based on real root causes, not knee jerk broad based reactions.

I am encouaged by Jan Cutts decision to hold off the wet season closure till feb. 20 this year. She is interested in understanding the real problems and devising long term solutions. I think in the short run a Quad wet season restriction is a valid response to the real issues.

What I don't want to do is lead teams of dirt bikers up there to repair quad trails without a strong Volunteer response from the QUAD riders too. we want to place a sign up there asking QUAD riders to join with us. If they do then we can win. If they don't then I will POINT a BIG FINGER at the QUADs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can remember when trail 5 was total mess too, and yet no quads can go on that one either..

you never saw this

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/news/07_news_releases/images/arrd/07_feb_ohv_damage_1a.jpg

on trail 5.

these are specialized very specific problem areas on trails 1 and 7, A volunteer group could drain it and dirt bikes could use the right side.....but quads would rip it wider. They are closing FH because of quads. pure and simple. I ain't gonna sugar coat it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this will be news to most of you, but as a USFS volunteer for both trail maintenance and assessment, the big problem here is the standing water. Couple that with quad or motorcycle use and you're going to have problems. All of this standing water needs to be drained off the trail tread into catch basins to protect against rutting and stream sedimentation (looks like the slope is good on a couple of those, so should be easy). This is not environmental BS. It's a real problem. Bob knows the story. I'm sure other do, too.

These sorts of fixes are done on a routine basis at Rock Creek by volunteers. Keep the trail tread (relatively) dry and you can ride the piss out of it. If it's completely saturated, stay off it...quad or bike. It may be that FH takes longer to dry out...then stay off it longer. As yzwiley stated, there are A LOT more people riding these days (23 years myself, and I'm blown away by how big this sport has gotten). Trail usage is WAY up. If we can't volunteer labor and show some self control, I have no doubt that many of these places will get shut down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think this will be news to most of you, but as a USFS volunteer for both trail maintenance and assessment, the big problem here is the standing water.

Bingo!!

Add to the equation that there are riders going through there that don't know how to stay on the gas and out of the ruts. It all looks like squid ruts to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the finger pointing is a total waste of time and energy. I can go just about anywhere on public land and find puddles and rain ruts. It doesn't matter what kind of vehicle made the rut, it is there and someone with an agenda posted the picture with intent. Don't you think it is strange that this was posted on the forestry website just before new wilderness legislation is about to be introduced? Quit bickering amoungst the OHV community and get invloved. Every group has at least one bonehead that goes out and does stupid things, those are the people that need to get a big fat ticket. I am tired of going to areas that have no or minimal law enforcement and they are not using any type of measures to curb illegal riding. IMO, this is done intentionally to get areas closed to OHV. We need to police ourselves and be very active in the political/legislative process. Several of the pictures were of the same rut if you look close, I think someone in the forestry service is just trying to get the area closed to OHV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

volunteer and help....i am now more then ever now that i seen those pics...Who cares who did it, LETS FIT IT! Bickering don't repair the trail system! volunteering does!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no Einstein but most of the quads I've seen only have about 4-6 inches of clearance and can't even make it through the ruts shown on the FS webpage. :eek: Bikes on the other hand can go in almost any many small rut and continued use makes them bigger. That's not rocket science, it just basic physics. Go watch any wet or muddy MX race and see what kind of ruts magically appear after the race is over. :lol: Most of us are in denial that we can "self-police" all OHV users out there. :lol: That's just not the case. There are far too many user's these days to do that. :naughty:"UNLESS we all get out there and talk to the abusers, inform them on proper OHV use and encourage them to assist with trail maintenance and join organizations like CORBA".

No one from the "GREEN" side is going to do it for us. If you want to keep riding in your favorite spots. Get out there and talk to the "BOZO'S" who are really tearing it up for us. There are many of us that help provide assistance to trail maintenance, even quad riders like myself. Lets keep the accusations to those that deserve it, not single out any one specific group. :lol: It's the BOZO's you need to address.

Like my signature say's "Not all couch-riders are boneheads"

"Just My Opinion" :applause:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can't we all just get along I think rodney king said it best lets quit blaming the quads and get out there when they reopen it and fix the prob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×