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Another reply from Adam Kline

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Thanks for your e-mail. I've received 40 or so e-mails today about the

e-mail to which you referred in your letter -- some praising me for my

stance, others criticizing me. Because I want to reply to all of you

fairly quickly, I'm sending identical e-mails to all of you.

Yes, I wrote that e-mail. I should know better than to write while I'm

angry. I realize my letter was rude. However, there's is no statement

of fact in my letter that I want to retract. Anger and rudeness aside,

it's true.

I understand that many motorized sports are challenging and exciting

athletic endeavors, and that lots of people enjoy them. I don't want to

ban these sports. SB5544 is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is

anti-noise.

Let me tell you a few stories from my personal experience, and not just

of motorbikes and other motorized forms of recreation, but of the people

who ride them.

When my kid was born I went next door to the guy whose two kids rode

their motorbikes incessantly though the alley, up over a small hill he'd

built in his backyard, and back to the alley--over and over. Though they

had been making a nuisance for months, I hadn't asked him before to make

the kids stop. Now I had a newborn baby, and my wife and I needed some

peace. Hell no was the answer, and the guy wants to punch me out. It's

his kids' way of having fun.

Fast forward eight or ten years. Kid and I are in my canoe, on a lazy

weekend day on Lake Washington. Lots of boaters are out, mostly

motorboats, some sailboats, and a bunch of canoes, and everyone's

enjoying the lake. Along come a couple of teenagers on jet-skis, chasing

each other in and out of the boats at what looks like 30-40 mph, making

a noise like a million mosquitoes. These kids are going so fast they can

treat moving boats as if they were stationery objects--or so they think.

One is screaming and laughing; I couldn't hear him over the noise, but I

remember thinking he was drunk. He chases the other alongside my canoe,

a few feet off. Think of it--a sudden deep wake approaching a canoe,

broadside.

If you're not a boater, let me explain why this is a disaster in the

making. A canoe must be turned perpendicular to an oncoming wave, to

minimize the force, but this pair was leaving two wakes broadside, so

close I had no time to react. This is elementary knowledge to any

boater. These drunk kids had powerful and dangerous machines costing

tens of thousands of dollars, and they had no idea of the danger they

were causing. I grabbed the paddle and hauled that boat around with two

strokes.

For decades, my buddies and I have been climbing in the Cascades and

Olympics. That's what we do for fun, from late spring to early

fall--even now, though a lot less, since we're in our 50's and 60's. I

can recall maybe a dozen times when we'd be on the trail to or from a

climbing route, through National Forest or private land, and hear--I

mean really hear--a bunch of motorbikes or snowmobiles in the distance.

On one occasion, there were six snowmobiles in single file, chewing up a

trail clearly marked No Motorized Use. The reason I recall that incident

apart from the others isn't just the high number of vehicles, but rather

that the guy in the lead vehicle was actually polite, even apologetic.

Yes, they knew the trail was marked. They hadn't expected climbers at

this time of year. We almost didn't mind the noise and fumes, we were

that surprised at a polite snowmobiler.

Just this past summer, I spent time in many parts of western Washington,

helping members of my party go door-to-door to meet voters, distribute

campaign literature, etc. In residential neighborhoods in Mason

County, in Woodinville, just outside Auburn, and in Bonney Lake, there

were occasions where someone is riding around and around and around in a

motorbike, making a hell of a noise, and making ordinary conversation

difficult. These are the homes of people my colleagues represent. We and

the residents had to shout to each other, though we were standing on

their doorsteps. These latter are some loud machines--dune buggies,

quads, and other ORVs, some with their mufflers adjusted so they can

generate more power and even more noise. I'm not familiar with the

prices they sell for, but I'll guess they're in the $4,000 to $8,000

range. (I understand that jet-skis and snowmobiles cost even more.)

It's not just the machines; it's the attitude of some of the people who

ride them. Just today, I saw what I take as a death threat. It

appeared in a motorcycle/ATV blog, ThumperTalk, where SB 5544 was being

discussed. One person asked another "what's the best way to get hold of

Sen. Kline, by e-mail or letter?" The answer: "Call him. Next best would

be in person with a rifle. OOPS, did I just say that?" A friend copied

it and sent me the hard copy; the comment is now off the blog.

Normally, I wouldn't take this anonymous stuff seriously, but a woman

witness who testified before the legislative committee in favor of this

bill told me today that a guy who owns an ORV store near here has been

stalking her, and that she is in fear and needs to tell the police.

Again, SB 5544 is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is anti-noise.

There is nothing wrong with families enjoying off-roading. But when

their fun activity harasses other families who are in their homes, in

their yards, or who are out trying to get some peace and quiet on

designated trails, then there's a real problem.

SB 5544 is reasonable, and simply calls for the industry standard

96-decibel limit on the new 2008 models, 108 decibels on the 2007 and

older models. It also sets a 55-decibel limit at the property line of

any resident, and 45 decibels within 10 feet of a home. These are

peoples' homes we're talking about. Having a 45-decibel noise is like a

small jet take off from a neighboring airport, or like a train pulling

through town. Between that and the industry standard, it's not asking

much. There is no cost financially--unless the muffler has been adjusted

and has to be re-adjusted--and in any case, folks who spend thousands on

these machines should be able to spend a few dollars on a little

Thoughtfulness. A little of that will go a long way.

Yours truly,

Adam

Senator Adam Kline

37th Legislative District

223 John A. Cherberg Building

PO Box 40437

Olympia, WA 98504-0437

360-786-7688

:applause:

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45db near an airport?

BS. My friend used to live in White Center and our conversation had to stop each time a plane landed.

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For decades, my buddies and I have been climbing in the Cascades and Olympics...I can recall maybe a dozen times when we'd be on the trail to or from a climbing route, through National Forest or private land, and hear--I mean really hear--a bunch of motorbikes or snowmobiles in the distance.

So he has been hiking for decades and was inconvenienced by the sound of an OHV TWELVE times???? TWELVE times out of DECADES of hiking. OMG the poor man...that's awful! And he says it was while they were hiking to or from the climbing route...not while they were actually on their climbing route.

It's funny how these people want all the noise to stop just as soon as they turn off THEIR vehicle.

And the "drunk" teenagers on their jet skis...what a clown. He should get a law passed banning teenage drinking....oh, wait, there already is one. Is he really asserting that a jet ski will capsize a canoe? And on Lake Washington no less, what about all the wakeboard boats making real wakes? Or the 40+ foot yachts? If you expect smooth water and peace and quiet on Lake Washington you're an idiot.

I'll bet he's not trying to ban the hydros during Seafair. I'm sure that's when they have their big block party with all the neighbors and hire a band like his website says. Those folks that live in the Mt Baker neighborhood have the primo view of the races.

Adam Kline is a Putz.

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If this bill isn't Anti-ORV, then remove the language specifically targeting ORV's so it applies to ALL SOURCES OF NOISE ...

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So, Mr Kline wants to limit peoples activities based on his personal experience and not that of his constituents?

Well, here's one. I think it's obnoxious that tax payers ultimately pay for pricey mountain-top helicopter rescues of stranded climbers. Let's ban climbing because a few people ruin that for the rest of the climbing community.

Or, better yet. Let's ban everything that I don't agree with. Then we can rename Seattle to Stalin-attle.

Unbelievable, this guy wants everything in the world to conform to his way of thinking.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now, for you TT'ers. Do not make threatening statements to anyone about anything. That's just plain stupid and takes value away from our cause. Better yet, TT admins should ban that user from posting for 60 days.

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If this bill isn't Anti-ORV, then remove the language specifically targeting ORV's so it applies to ALL SOURCES OF NOISE ...

Bingo

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Mr Kline,Lets pass a law to keep hydroplanes off of lake washington during seafair so you can use your canoe.......Oh wait,that something that actualy HAPPENS in YOUR district. :applause: Maybe ban block parties with bands playing as i'm sure thats over 45 db.

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So why did jet ski's get left out on this ???? Oh,that happens in the 37th district too!

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Because Kline and his friends may be over zealous bigots they are smart enough to take small steps. Start with the OHVs since we have been working on them for years already then go for everything else in steps.

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One point that has been made over and over again needs to be blasted into their ear drums.

There are more non-motorized trails in Washington than there are motorized. Why are the cry babies on motorized trails that we not only pay to keep up but actually do volunteer work on? The reason is obvious. They want to ban motorized ORV vehicles period. We do not ride on their trails and if we did we would receive heavy fines.

I have always been friendly to hikers on our trails. As long as they understand that these trails are paid for and kept up by us I don't have a problem sharing with them. Personally I feel every time a hiker complains about riders who are on legal trails the hiker should be fined. They are wasting law enforcements time and money. They could have totally avoided the problem by hiking one of the many beautiful non motorized trails in our state. And those fines should go into a fund that supports motorized sports. Now that is not going to happen so I will come back down to earth.

Many times I have been treated rudely by hikers just because I am on a dirt bike riding the trail they are hiking on. I didn't do anything to them in fact I always go out of my way to say hi and ask them how they are doing. Some are courteous but far too many are rude. There have been times when these hikers have drug logs and rocks onto the trails trying to block us from riding. A few years back we stopped to help a ranger (ran into John - somewhere around Hereford Meadows) clear some trails. He asked us if we came across some logs on the trails before we came upon him. He said he had cleared them a couple times and that some hikers had been blocking the trail. If memory serves me correctly he said he warned them. Should we make legislation blocking all hikers because of these idiots? According to the Senators reasoning we should.

There is a problem that can be caused by too much noise in a neighborhood. But we do not need new legislation to deal with it. We already have legislation that would prevent your neighbor from blasting everyone with his favorite music (or track bike). (I need to careful here cause when I am in my car I really crank it up) Never the less if a neighbor complains the police will come out and do something about it. We do not need a new law. Just enforce the existing laws.

No! this is definitely not about noise but about ORVs. The ORV community has been working for sensible limits on ORV noise ourselves. I was at a special meeting in Ellensburg last year concerning this issue along with many other ORV owners. The Senator knows this and isn't interested in the sensible legislation we are after. Why? Because it will not ban ORVs, and that is his real goal. If it is not your goal Senator then why didn't you look into our efforts to get sensible noise limits and work with us?

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I don't want to ban these sports. SB5544 is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is anti-noise.

But yet his whole letter is about how he hates these vehicles.

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good news guys I am developing a motor that runs on baby kittens and rabbits and such. The exhaust is really quiet but messy. Kidden. We pay so much and help clear so many trials. Hikers, mt bikes pay nothing. It's a case of anything i don't enjoy is wrong. Guns are loud lets ban them too, and socialize health care while were at it. Heck lets just go communist and let the government decide what we do, where we do it, when we do it. Sorry, for the rant. I am just and old school conservative and don't agree with much of how the west side politicians controle the east side.:applause:

PS loud pipes save lifes, it is true on the street and dirt!

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Kline is the worst form of tyrant, abusing the trust of the people he is supposed to be representing.

Mr Kline is simply an assinine overgrown child. I will encourage anybody who will listen, to vote against Kline in the next election.

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My wife also sent Mr Kline an e-mail,here is what she sent him

Dear Senator Kline,

My family lives in the Olympia area and rides in eastern Washington at a designated orv park with trails for dirt bikes, these weekends are precious to our family as we get away from cell phones, TV ect... when we camp in this area we ride together, spend time bonding as a family unit, clean up camping areas and improve trail conditions. my 12 year old son is a honor roll student, football player, and an over all awesome human being he is in no way obese and lazy as your e mail stated, as with any group participating in any activity you have those individuals who can be irresponsible, that being said your statements are that we have no business riding anywhere, that is very extreme, public lands are working well in our state with areas provided for everyone to enjoy there interests.

It is very clear that you just do not like orv's, I certainly cannot change your mind, however I take issue with your narrow view of the orv community.

I am personally a responsible orv user who takes time to educate myself, my children and others on riding etiquette and rules of the public land we ride on, this all falls on deaf ears I know as you would out right ban all off road motorized vehicles, but last time I checked this is still America, and diversity is what makes America so great.

This was his reply,not much changed but a few changes that make it worth posting.

Thanks for your e-mail. I've received 80 or so e-mails in the last few days about the e-mail to which you referred in your letter -- some praising me for my stance, others criticizing me. Because I want to reply to all of you fairly quickly, I'm sending nearly identical e-mails to all of you.

Yes, I wrote that e-mail. I should know better than to write while I'm angry. I apologize for my rudeness, and for not acknowledging that a majority of ORV enthusiasts "ride responsibly." I also apologize for insulting a lot of good people who are just trying to have fun outdoors with their friends and families. Having spoken and corresponded with many motorcyclists, snowmobilers and other sports-people in the last several days, I also recognize that I was misinformed about the sheer athleticism involved in some motorized sports. Clearly, you have to be in pretty good shape to maneuver a fast-moving dirtbike down a winding mountain trail.

In this letter, I want to tell you some of the personal experiences that led to my anger-driven e-mail about ORVs. While these experiences don't justify my rudeness, it may help you to understand where I'm coming from. Then I'll talk a bit out the bill, SB 5544, that instigated this discussion. I want to be clear that SB 5544 is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is anti-noise. It seeks to lessen the impact of these sports on those who live or play near ORV areas.

First, a few stories from my personal experience. When my daughter was born, I lived next door to a family with two kids who rode their motorbikes incessantly though the alley, up over a small hill the father had built in his backyard, and back to the alley. They did this over and over and over again. Though they had been making a nuisance for all of the neighbors for months, I hadn't yet asked them to stop. Now I had a newborn baby, and my wife, baby and I needed some peace. I respectfully talked to the father. "Hell no!" was his answer. He wanted to punch me out. He said it was his kids' way of having fun, and I had no right to ask them to quiet down for a while.

Fast forward eight or ten years. My daughter and I are in my canoe, on a lazy weekend day on Lake Washington. Lots of boaters are out, mostly motorboats, some sailboats, and a bunch of canoes, and everyone's enjoying the lake. Along come a couple of teenagers on jet-skis, chasing each other in and out of the boats at what looks like 30-40 mph, making a noise like a million angry mosquitoes. These kids are going so fast they can treat moving boats as if they were stationery objects--or so they think. One is screaming and laughing; I couldn't hear him over the noise, but I remember thinking he was drunk. He chases the other alongside my canoe, a few feet off. Think of it--a sudden deep wake approaching a canoe, broadside.

If you're not a boater, let me explain why this is a disaster in the making. A canoe must be turned perpendicular to an oncoming wave, to minimize the force, but this pair was leaving two wakes broadside, so close I had no time to react. This is elementary knowledge to any boater, and responsible boaters and jet-skiers take care to not cause this danger. These drunk kids had powerful and dangerous machines costing tens of thousands of dollars, and they had no idea of the danger they were causing. Luckily, I was able to grab the paddle and haul the boat around so my daughter and I wouldn't capsize.

For decades, my buddies and I have been climbing in the Cascades and Olympics. That's what we do for fun, from late spring to early fall--even now, though a lot less, since we're in our 50's and 60's. I can easily recall a dozen times when we'd be on the trail to or from a climbing route, through National Forest or private land, and hear--I mean REALLY hear--a bunch of motorbikes or snowmobiles in the distance. On one occasion, there were six snowmobiles in single file, chewing up a trail clearly marked No Motorized Use.

Just this past summer, I spent time in many parts of western Washington, helping members of my party go door-to-door to meet voters, distribute campaign literature, etc. In residential neighborhoods in Mason County, in Woodinville, just outside Auburn, and in Bonney Lake, there were occasions where someone was riding around and around and around in a motorbike, making a hell of a noise, and making ordinary conversation difficult. These are the homes of people my colleagues represent. We and the residents had to shout to each other, though we were standing on their doorsteps. These latter are some loud machines--dune buggies, quads, and other ORVs, some with their mufflers adjusted so they can generate more power and even more noise.

Those are just a few of my negative experiences with ORV enthusiasts. I want to point out that I've also had positive experiences with folks on ORVs -- I know that most motorcyclists, snowmobilers, etc. are responsible and careful.

Before I sent out that angry e-mail, I had received only about a dozen letters and calls about SB 5544. All but a few of those were supportive of the bill. The people who contacted me to support the bill like it for the same reasons I like it. They feel that ORV riders cause noise pollution that has negative effects on residential and recreation areas. Many of these folks -- and people who have written to me since I sent the angry e-mail -- have seen their property values and quality of life damaged by loud ORVs near their homes. Others are angered by the air pollution and other types of environmental damage caused by ORVs. It's hard to careen your dirtbike down a mountain trail without tearing up the trail.

For example, I've heard from several folks down here in Olympia who either live near Capitol Peak or like to hike there, and they are distressed about the environmental damage wrought by ORVs. Other people have told me about times they felt their lives were in danger because an ORV user was riding irresponsibly on a trail and nearly hit them or their child. A few have told me about times when they have been threatened by ORV enthusiasts who were angry because they were asking them to stop riding illegally on their property or another restricted area. For example, one of the witnesses who testified before the legislative committee in favor of this bill told me that a guy who owns an ORV store near here has been stalking her, and that she is in fear and needs to tell the police.

On Friday, I saw what could taken as a death threat. It appeared in a motorcycle/ATV blog, ThumperTalk, where SB 5544 was being discussed. One person asked another "what's the best way to get hold of Sen. Kline, by e-mail or letter?" The answer: "Call him. Next best would be in person with a rifle. OOPS, did I just say that?"

A friend copied this "threat" and sent me copy. (The comment is now off the blog, but I can send a copy to you if you want to see it.) I know this person was probably just joking, and that he didn't really mean what he'd written in anger. Normally, I don’t take such vague threats too seriously. Still, in the context of some of the angry e-mails I've received, I've been told that I should take it seriously.

Now I want to talk a bit about the content of SB 5544. Again, the bill is not anti-ORV or anti-motorcycle, it is anti-noise. It doesn't ban off-roading.

SB 5544 simply calls for the industry standard 96-decibel limit on the new 2008 models, 108 decibels on the 2007 and older models. It also sets a 55-decibel limit at the property line of any resident, and 45 decibels within 10 feet of a home. These are peoples' homes we're talking about. Having a 45-decibel noise is like a small jet take off from a neighboring airport, or like a train pulling through town. Between that and the industry standard, it's not asking much.

I'm not very familiar with the prices of ORVs, but I'll guess they're in the $4,000 to $8,000 range. (I understand that jet-skis and snowmobiles cost even more.) For most ORV riders, I've been told that there would be little financial cost to abiding with SB 5544. In fact, there is no cost financially--unless the muffler has been adjusted and has to be re-adjusted--and in any case, folks who spend thousands on these machines should be able to spend a few dollars on a little Thoughtfulness. A little of that will go a long way.

I've attached a copy of the "bill report" that describes SB 5544. The bill was prime-sponsored by Senator Karen Fraser, and was co-sponsored by six other senators, including myself. It passed out of the Consumer Protection and Housing Committee with a 7 to 2 vote, and is currently in the Rules Committee. I'm certainly willing to discuss potential modifications to SB 5544, in order to make it reasonable for all concerned stakeholders. However, I'm not going to retract my support of general idea of the legislation: to give people some peace and quiet when they are in their homes, and to place reasonable limits on the decibel levels of ORV's. It's possible that SB 5544 in its current form is too burdonsome -- that's why we're still discussing the details with a wide range of folks.

Once again, I'm sorry for my rudeness and for mischaracterizing ORV sports enthusiasts. Having said that, I want to be clear that I continue to firmly support SB 5544. I'll leave you with a quote from an e-mail sent to me on Friday by a motorcyclist.

"I am a motorcyclist and I SUPPORT you and your efforts with SB 5544. I enjoy the sport of motorcycling. It is a wonderful pastime. I also enjoy many other things which bring me into the great outdoors of the Pacific Northwest---hiking, camping, cross-country skiing, beachcombing. I am in complete agreement with you regarding the increased level of noise which has been introduced into our environment by motorized vehicles that are operating at a louder level than need be. This is true not just in natural areas such as forest lands, beaches, and mountain trails; but also within our urban environment. Motorized vehicles such as snow machines, personal watercraft, motorcycles, and automobiles are increasingly operated with minimal sound restrictions. Again, I must emphasize that I am taking this position as an avid motorcyclist. I can say this because the motorcycle that I ride is quieter than most automobiles. It has a factory installed muffler. Please stand firm in your commitment to SB 5544. You have many supporters like myself-----including many whom are Washington voters."

Yours truly,

Adam

Senator Adam Kline

37th Legislative District

223 John A. Cherberg Building

PO Box 40437

Olympia, WA 98504-0437

360-786-7688

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So he has been hiking for decades and was inconvenienced by the sound of an OHV TWELVE times???? TWELVE times out of DECADES of hiking. OMG the poor man...that's awful! And he says it was while they were hiking to or from the climbing route...not while they were actually on their climbing route.

It's funny how these people want all the noise to stop just as soon as they turn off THEIR vehicle.

And the "drunk" teenagers on their jet skis...what a clown. He should get a law passed banning teenage drinking....oh, wait, there already is one. Is he really asserting that a jet ski will capsize a canoe? And on Lake Washington no less, what about all the wakeboard boats making real wakes? Or the 40+ foot yachts? If you expect smooth water and peace and quiet on Lake Washington you're an idiot. I'll bet he's not trying to ban the hydros during Seafair. I'm sure that's when they have their big block party with all the neighbors and hire a band like his website says. Those folks that live in the Mt Baker neighborhood have the primo view of the races.

Adam Kline is a Putz.

As an avid boater (and jet ski hater), I have to say, great post. He's basically saying, "I'm not against ORV's...as long as I don't have to hear them...ever". I can appreciate his issue with the neighbor...the rest of his stories sound like a whining little 6 year old not getting his way. Great canoe story, Adam. Oooooh, your cat-like reflexes saved you from nearly tipping over a canoe and, god forbid, getting wet while at the lake. Riveting.

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