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she then proceeds to threaten to confiscate bikes, etc to families riding with their kids - not knuckleheads tearing off the beaten path - just a 10-12 yr old on a smaller bike or quad following dad to the tunnel. Paint it anyway you want to, but that is absurd. She is completely overzealous in her pursuit of targeting OHV's. How is this behavior helping to keep the park open?

What we miss sometimes is when they catch the Knuckleheads. And said Knucklehead goes back to riding the track at Glen Helen or where ever. That helps clean up the desert too.

I have not worked any clean up days, sorry. But what I do is show everybody in or camp group proper desert etiquette. And I lead some long rides with the kids again showing them how important it is to be smart in the desert. And at the end of the weekend who ever broke my rules is picking up trash.

And in closing I will gladly show who ever what's to see my green sticker, mine and anybody with me there's. If they ticket every Knucklehead who is f:censored: up MY desert

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on a related note... somewhat... can anyone tell me the fundamental difference between my old 2002 CRF450R Honda - GREEN stickered bike....and my new 2006 CRF450R Honda- RED stickered bike? I would love to hear how the 2006-in the eyes of the DMV - is suddenly a non-compliant bike? I know it also includes 03, 04 and 05's, but who determined that 03's on up to now are slapped with the red-headed step-child label? Now all of a sudden, I'm not "legally" allowed to ride that 1/4 mile in Last Chance Canyon's new addition to Red Rock State Park on the way to the Burro Schmidt tunnel? What a joooke. HAHA...oh well, I have some free time so I thought I'd "vent" a little on here... i wonder if my 1971 Bultaco would be legal in Red Rock State Park...hmmm

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Strkler

your 2002 was a red sticker bike but at that time the red green thing was new to dealers and the dmv. Some that should be red got green so they made all bikes up to that date green. And yes your bultaco is still green and would make it legal for redrock

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i wonder if my 1971 Bultaco would be legal in Red Rock State Park...hmmm

Yes and not only that if you could get some lights on there you could plate it and ride it down the road! Emissions only matters for 1987 and later.

As far as why you old bike gets a green, it is the same kind of thing. The regulations are only being enforced for 2003 and later. Old bikes are grandfathered in.

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\i wonder if my 1971 Bultaco would be legal in Red Rock State Park...hmmm

Yes, your '71 Bultaco would be completely legal and green stickered. So would my Montesa Cappra of the same vintage! :applause: Of course I doubt either would meet the 96dB requirement though.... Something about those straight thru down pipes. :eek:

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I know, i realize the whole green/red thing....but my point is ...is there REALLY any notable difference in those bikes?? I mean, is my 06 somehow magically cleaner or does less damage to the ozone or kick up less dust or something?! Hahaha! :applause: Sometimes the greenies make me want to chop down the tree in my backyard, eat 2 steaks for dinner and buy my wife a fur coat.

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There's no difference. They just had to make an arbritrary cutoff date at some point. Unlucky for you, they made it before you bought your new bike.

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Just wanted to bring Red Rock State Park issue back for the moment.

I did feel like one lone desert user in a room full of law enforcement

this morning when I went out on the limb and brought this issue up.

I spoke to the fact that I have been hearing people talk about

getting harassed by the Park service, So even though I may have

went against the grain on some of you last week on this, I did address

it at the FOJ meeting this morning because I felt it needed to be addressed.

Some of the LEOs did give me a burning stare as I addressed this and

some made unproductive remarks.

Casy Carlson From Park serivice was there and was receptive and very

concerned that we as users felt this way.

Unfortunately, this morning I did not have a way to efficiently print out

this thread, so I sent him the link via Email, Im sure he will read every remark made.

Some of the attitude I read here may even hurt us, but I still feel it needs to be

bought out in the open.

Hopefully as a result, we can get some productive, positive results from

this.... rather than us going after Rangers on the Internet, and them going

after us because we are "targets".

Wayne Nosala

Friends of Jawbone

CORVA

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I wish they could have these meeting's at a time when I could attend.

They set up the meeting during the operating hours so they can go home to the family at night after work.I'm am negative but after seeing what has evolved after years of forrestry envolvement I feel no other option.Places completly closed down or to the point where it is no fun anymore.I thought the forrestry was suppose to look out for everyone's interest?IMHO the signs put up are less attractive than the trails they replaced.They love to check the sticker to make sure that they are getting payed.They close trails and put up fences to confine access to one or two gates for better control.They write unnessary tickets to show that there is a reason for their employment.They will not even open gates for use when trails are dry because it may rain in week or two.I know most every thing I said is not completly true and I am ignorant or stupid but IT'S HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL!:applause:

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I did feel like one lone desert user in a room full of law enforcement this morning when I went out on the limb and brought this issue up.

Thanks Wayne! :applause: We appreciate your efforts!

Some of the LEOs did give me a burning stare as I addressed this and

some made unproductive remarks.

PR. Corporate firms pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it, to make SURE that the general public thinks of them what they want them to think. It seems to me that if you were getting a burning stare, that they are committed (either knowingly or subconsciously) to being a part of the PROBLEM, not the solution. If they actually want us to think better of them, they could REALLY use some PR.

Casy Carlson From Park serivice was there and was receptive and very

concerned that we as users felt this way.

Sounds like a good guy. Hopefully there can be more like him and less like the others. You know my experiences, I guess I'm just unlucky, but I always seem to get pulled over for virtually NO reason. Never get ticketed or thrown out - just "harrassed" because I am 100% legal and pretty much try to obey all the rules. But having the negative experiences - especially in front of younger kids" really colors your view of LEO's - and the kids as well. (BTW, FYI, I've been pulled over several times in ONE day in Gorman during red sticker season - just because I was riding a "blue" bike. WR, but plated and with a green sticker to boot. 100% legal, but each time they had to run the registration. One guy even did it to us twice. I guess they don't have anything better to do. There are a couple of bad apples there...

Hopefully as a result, we can get some productive, positive results from

this.... rather than us going after Rangers on the Internet, and them going

after us because we are "targets".

Wayne Nosala

Friends of Jawbone

CORVA

One can only hope. :eek: I won't hold my breath though...OK? :lol:

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.........but IT'S HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL!:applause:

You are not the only one....

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I purposely try not to ride in the areas where the LEO's are going to frequent and because of that my son has missed a lot of great places to ride. I rode most areas when all you had to worry about was getting there and back. Keep up the great work Wayne and when time permits I will attend and try to help out. After reading some of the posts I realize that due to where I ride my viewpoint of what is happening to other riders is very limited. If this keeps up even where I ride will not be exempt.

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Bottom line enjoy the desert while you can. Hell, enjoy life while you can. If you are half the person you think you are, or wish you were, then you'll try to leave the place the same or better then before.

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thanks for the efforts Wayne, I agree that Casey does seem genuinely interested and wants to be fair to all that use the park. Was there any discussion on the survey that's been going on or the riparian area or the General Plan ammendment for Last Chance? I keep checking the FOJ website for updated minutes to read through but looks like it hasn't been updated in awhile.....thanks

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Here is something that I try and do when stopped for no apparent reason.

1. Try really hard to keep my cool.

2. Be at least somewhat cooperative.

3. Ask "Why am I being detained."

Generally they will let you go when you ask this unless they really did stop you for something. Unless there is something special about a state park, they can't just stop you for no reason. They have to have some kind of probable cause to detain you. I'm not saying to challenge their authority or anything, just get them to state why.

It's been a while since I had to do this though. If I'm parked on the trailside or at my truck and a ranger show up, I usually end up talking to them for a half hour

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They have to have some kind of probable cause to detain you.

Agreed, but that's not how it plays out in many, many, many circumstances. Is having a blue bike probable cause? (I call it racial profiling for motorcycles. :eek: ) Is riding on a legal trail probable cause? What exactly IS probably cause for pulling over a motorcycle off-road? Now that I would love to know. Is there an actual set of guidelines, or is it pull over whoever you want for whatever passing fancy you may have as long as you're a ranger/OHVLEO?

If we were druggies discussing our drug busts, we'd all have stories about how our attorneys crawled right up their collective @$$es - getting our cases thrown out of court due to abuses in the system. But it's only dirt bikes and we don't even have enough money or manpower to fight to keep our land rideable much less fight for fairness and sensibleness in the system. How are we going to fight a probable cause issue? ESPECIALLY when all they do is detain you, check your pipe or reg, cop a "you're all the same, out to destroy the land" attitude and let you go without a ticket cause you didn't really do anything they could ticket you for?

Personally - for me - the thing could be solved very simply. I'd be happy to be pulled over any time any where for any reason IF they didn't treat me like an AUTOMATIC criminal before discerning that I'm not a threat to myself, anyone in the general area, the land I'm riding, or society at large. After all, aren't they there to "protect and SERVE"?

OK Bill....put your hands on the handlebars and step away from the soapbox....:lol::applause::lol:

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Agreed, but that's not how it plays out in many, many, many circumstances. Is having a blue bike probable cause? (I call it racial profiling for motorcycles. :applause: ) Is riding on a legal trail probable cause? What exactly IS probably cause for pulling over a motorcycle off-road? Now that I would love to know. Is there an actual set of guidelines, or is it pull over whoever you want for whatever passing fancy you may have as long as you're a ranger/OHVLEO?

I think that the vast majority of non cause OHV stops are basically fishing expeditions. There is nothing to stop them from asking questions, but usually they can't detain you unless there is real cause. That's why it is important to ask "why am I being detained." When they can't come up with a reason, off you go. End of fishing expedition. Now if they do detain you, you have something to complain about. Many years ago I got a psycho rookie state park ranger fired this way. I filed complaints when they get out of line. Now I'm an older guy and I usually get referred to as "sir." The "man" just doesn't hassle me like he used to.

Somewhere there is a list of offenses that can cause a stop. For example when the seat belt law was first started they couldn't pull you over for it. If they pulled you over for something else and you didn't have a seat belt on you could be cited for it. Later the law was changed and you can now get pulled over for not having a seat belt. Can they pull you over to check for a spark arrestor? I have no idea, but I would like to know.

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Now I'm an older guy and I usually get referred to as "sir." The "man" just doesn't hassle me like he used to.

:eek::lol::lol:

:applause:

At what age does the line of demarkation change between "hey punk" and "sir"?? LOL!!!! I think you're absolultely right about the "fishing" expeditions. bp

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I am sorry it took me so long to reply to this string. Wayne brought this to my attention at the FOJ meeting, but I have been out of town since.

I am the Supervising Ranger for Red Rock Canyon S.P. No, we are not Anti-OHV. Personally, I have owned and used two green sticker bikes, and 4 dual sports. I currently have a KLR 650. I know it is big!

Yes, Rangers follow the same rules as any other Law Enforcement Officer. A Ranger will need to witness a violation or have probable cause to believe that a violation has occured to make a stop. A green sticker that is not visible or is in the wrong place is a valid reason to stop. The Ranger should inform the stopped person of reason for the stop. If they don't, then it is a perfectly reasonable question to ask why.

I have made sure that my Rangers know when to stop and when not to. Our primary purpose is to protect the park and the visitors. We also respond to emergencys in the surrounding area.

Please feel free to contact me if you feel that you have been mistreated by a Ranger of if you have any questions about the Park or Park policies or Rules.

Thank you,

Casey T. Carlson

Supervising State Park Ranger

CA State Parks

Mojave Sector

661-726-1671

ccarlson@parks.ca.gov

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