New Black Jetmoto Enduro ordered yesterday, watch for updates

[XDragRacer]

Didn't advt buy a black JetMoto enduro?

If so, wonder how that bike is working out!

?

[S Won]

The sad thing that is most Americans seem to be happy about all this. People seem to relish in the fact that US auto makers are failing. We ignore the trade deficit and are just sitting back numb to the fact that we are slowly loosing our way of life . I'm glad I don't have kids!

Yeah, happy and content as they burn gasoline at an ever growing rate. What we really need to be doing is burning less fuel and doing something positive towards the GREENING of America. Making us less dependant. The US automakers are failing because they build overpriced crap that uses too much fuel. I know, we have 2 vehicles made by US manufacturers. They don't build anything anybody wants! If they do you can't afford to put fuel in it. Well, I guess you can, you just can't do anything else! You make it sound like we can do something about what is happening? Buy more US made cars and spend more for foreign gasoline. Yeah, that'll do it! Most US manufacturers are building fewer and fewer cars in the US. Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan, BWM, Mercedes-Benz, and a host of other companies have US manufacturung palnts in the US now. Driving the price od those vehicles down. In the case of M-B making the price not go up as fast! Buy more US products and less from the Chinese? What you really mean is to buy less! Because your buying power will be greatly reduced when you try this! Afterall, you're just one person what is going to happen when all your neighbors and friends don't join you in your quest to change the world?

Hopefully, this year my new solar house will be finished, and we'll be unhooking the natural gas meter from our supplier. I'm telling them to get the stupid thing out of my yard, period! Is this going to make a huge impact in the industry? No, but it will save me $2000 a year. If we all did this, we could possible effect the price and supply of natural gas. Maybe the domestic suppliers would be hard pressed to find another use for their gas and the price would go down. We had a 50% increase last year! 50%! Maybe the auto makers would be willing to start building cars that could use this compressed natural gas. If we used less electricity (by using solar panels to make our own) the coal companies would be forced to look for other buyers of their coal. The electric companies would need less and we could finally get clean coal technology out there and in use. Maybe even Clean Coal diesel fuel to power our automobiles and powerplants. It's not just about the environment it's about US independence!

There is much more you can do other than not buying Chinese products! The problem is people are willing to stay in the same gasoline rut because that's what they have always done! I'd love to have an electric car to run back and forth to work. I could save 6 to 8 thousand a year on fuel, oil and maintenance on vehicles. The US manufacturers won't build them. Why is that? Deals made with the US oil companies to increase profits while they still have a product to sell. Then what?

It's easy to preach it, but not so easy to do!

[XDragRacer]

Hopefully, this year my new solar house will be finished, and we'll be unhooking the natural gas meter from our supplier. I'm telling them to get the stupid thing out of my yard, period! Is this going to make a huge impact in the industry? No, but it will save me $2000 a year.

Didn't know your area of WV enjoyed sufficient solar radiation to dispense with "carboniferous" home heating; congratulations on saving $ 2000 a year.

Were additional costs involved in building your solar home, in contrast to conventional construction? If so, could you please quantify?

Your "green" motivation appears genuine and profound; I've wondered, why doesn't Al Gore advocate NUCLEAR POWER? Atomic reactors generating electric power do not have the undesirable "carbon footprint" of coal/oil/gas/wood-fueled power plants, I understand . . .

As to your "electric car," how would you charge its batteries? Running an auxiliary fossil-fuel motor, even plugging it into house current won't offer much fuel-independence, if your electric power comes from a source other than nuclear, hydroelectric, wind, or solar . . .

Now, about that black JetMoto enduro . . . ?

[jagger_snitt]

If it is a copy of a copy doesn't it have at least 1/3 of the original 80's engines reliablity? ?

[kiethco]

Jagger, the engines in China bikes seem to be reliable. I thinkthe issue may be the build. Cheaper, thinner metals. Shocks and springs, along with damping valves. On some units the battery box needs to be reinforced for offroad use. For light trail riding these bikes should give you pretty good service. Just check the bike over and keep up on maintenance.

This should change in a couple of years, Huge, massive dollars are flowing into China bike companies. (pullin and S won's dollars)

[jagger_snitt]

I'm happy where I'm at. But I haven't heard my positives about the off-brands. I don't have personal experience, just heard the rumors. I know that their are a few of the China,Taiwan-bike Manufacturers that have stepped up and made some head way above the rest. They are a threat to the big guys!

[kiethco]

I'm happy where I'm at. But I haven't heard my positives about the off-brands. I don't have personal experience, just heard the rumors. I know that their are a few of the China,Taiwan-bike Manufacturers that have stepped up and made some head way above the rest. They are a threat to the big guys!

Not yet. There are huge strides in suspension, engines, and support that must be met. Building a bike like a CRF 450 , KTM EXC, or even an XR takes a lot of research and development. Expect the price of these $600.00 dollar bikes to rise accordingly. Then you'll have to decide between a 4K China bike or a well bred 5K big 6 manufacturer bike. You'll see the gap narrow just as the Kymco's are now $5,000. for a top of the line scooter.

[ambassador]

The China revolution in America is nothing new, just about every appliance in your house is or has parts made in China but is anyone on a dishwasher forum bashing dishwashers?, NO... I will tell you that you do trust your dishwasher to remove all the stuff from your dishes so you don't get sick, can't wait for my Jap dishwasher to do the same thing my China one does at 1/4 the price...When it comes to bikes, IS China substandard???, They (China) are outsourced by the Big 4 to make all sorts of parts for the Jap Thumpers, there are NO trademark laws in China so they can build it and ship it anywhere w/ availability to be re-stamped by whoever (Big-4)... Be on the look out for mergers within the China and Japanese markets as this has and is already happening... Honda has already sold all of its old XR and other factory tooling to Lifan, Kawasaki and Suzuki have already mergered with the Chinese... Search the web, this is common knowledge, how much of your bikes are already made in China????

[pullin-gs]

Didn't know your area of WV enjoyed sufficient solar radiation to dispense with "carboniferous" home heating; congratulations on saving $ 2000 a year.

WV doesnt....that is what wood is for. Dirty maybe, but it is not a hydrocarbon emition...more of a "smog" dirty-air (every hear of global-dimming?) Most (yes, more that 50%) people from the country in my home town use wood as their primary heat.

As for powering an electric car?

Yes, plugging it into the wall results in much polution. First off, effeciancies are lost by about 20%+ of the net power output through the electrical transmission systems (transformer losses, copper resistances, etc.). You figure that on this coast they use dirty coal, with fewer "clean-air" systems than a car, that the net pollutants into the air are at least double of what it would be to just burn gasoline in the car.

The only true way to be polutent free with the car from an individual's perspective is to do it with a PV setup of about 5,000 watts. That is about 1200 square feet of Silicon @ 17% efficiencies, which translates into about 50 100 watt panels. An afternoon's worth of good sun would be enough to charge batteries to power a small car for about an hour at 12HP (HP needed to cruise at 55 to 50).

However.....the practical battery technology is still not quite here. Old electric cars used lead-acid batteries. Only good for a few miles. Later ones upgraded to nickel-cadmium (VERY poisonous to the environment) which doubled capacity/lb doubling range, but still not good enough IMO.

Then came Nickel-metal-hydride (NIMH) that the current hybids use. This doubled capacity/lb yet again. BINGO, now we talking. However a practical pack (not just a "kick-in-the-side" that Hybids use) for E-only use is about 10k+ a pack, and with nickel prices going through the roof because of the car-craze it will only get more expensive.

What next?

Lithium! This DOUBLES capacity/lb yet again. And the cells are easier to get rid of without killing the environment. Now we are talking about a car with some cruise and performance!

Lithium Polymer (explosive devils, but someday maybe?) and lithium Ion

(the expensive E-tools use these, such as Dewalt 24V drills) is here, but VERY expensive.

Guess who is coming to the rescue and creating CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE Lithium technology for consumer use?

You got it, THE CHINESE! These buggers can manufacture the stuff at about .25c on the dollar compared to US/Japanese manufacturers. However it is these cells that you keep reading about blowing up in peoples cell-phones.

Lithium is not here yet, but it will be. At that point I expect that cars will be a possibility? Perhaps a package deal with a solar array to keep it topped-off?

Cheers!

Pullin'

[kiethco]

See this is the kind of crap that ruins the Dualsport forum. Honda and or Suzuki has not merged with any China companies. Don't come in here with one post a year after this thread started and try to set the record straight. There have been numerous lawsuits filed by Honda alone for cloning and rebadging thier products. Damnit, what would this board be without me, you guys better hope I stay healthy for shits sake!

[S Won]

We are totally doing away with the burning of anything to heat and cool our new solar house. We are using a series of old and new solar technologies. The first system will be a passive solar system with an interior thermal mass. Solar energy will heat the thermal mass during peak daylight hours. The thermal mass will release heat back into the house during the night. This will help keep energy costs lower. Quite frankly, it's stupid to build a new house with a natural gas, propane, or oil furnace. I guess if you live in a development with a house 3 feet from your's then you have no choice. I don't, so I don't have to. I just think there is a better way to do it. Our primary heat source in our new home will be Geothermal Energy. The geothermal heatpump will heat the house no matter what the outside temperature is. It will also cool the house in the summer and make almost all of the hot water we will need or could use. The system is 435% efficient. For every dollar I spend for heat. I will get back $4.35 in heat! So you see, we here in West Virginia don't really have to be dependant on the burning of fuel to heat our homes. We have the perfect climate for solar energy use!

pullin-gs,

You are also totally incorrect about solar array efficiency and battery technology. Newer and better breakthroughs are just around the corner. Efficiency will certainly go up more and more. Thin film technology is already here and those panels will work even in cloudy conditions! They use UV light to make electricity on cloudy days. As for electric cars, currently there are electric cars powered by Lithium Ion batteries already on the market that will go 120 to 150 miles on a charge. All I need! They are expensive but costs will come down. Check the link! People are also building homebuilt vehicles that are doing pretty well, around 150 miles on a charge. Where I live electricity is cheap and electric cars would work very well. You need to do some more research and check some GREEN websites. You couldn't be more wrong about electric zero emmission vehicles causing as much pollution as a gasoline powered car. Coal fired power plants produce energy at a constant rate. It doesn't matter if you charge batteries or filter your pool water all night. They produce the same emissions. May as well use it for something positive by cutting your carbon footprint and using that power drive to work in a zero emission vehicle. Besides you could always use a solar charger or a home based solar array to recharge the batteries. I work for large user of electricity. I could plug mine in at work and it wouldn't be a blip on the radar screen!

http://www.acpropulsion.com/

What about that Black Jetmoto bike?

[kiethco]

Ruined, ruined I tell ya. Have you guys ever heard of chat rooms? You can find a kayak buddy, a poker game, loose women, and yes, solar energy chatrooms. The recent discussion makes China bikes look palatable.

[S Won]

You sound like you know a lot about those chat rooms keithco? These china bike threads always get out of hand. Nothing new!

When someone posts bad information about states they no nothing of, we must set them straight or try to! You did with me! ?

The Japanese are in bed with the Chinese. You gotta know that! Ever heard of Enkei? The Japanese wheel manufacturer. They make the new wheels for the Buell XB12X Ulysses. They have a large plant in China. The Buell wheels are made there. This is just one connection and it's with an American com pany. There are many more and the Japanese are in way deeper.

[pullin-gs]

pullin-gs,

You are also totally incorrect about solar array efficiency

Care to post some PV figures? I did. Even NASA's GA-Substrate cells only perform at about 25% effiencies. Back your claims up with some fact, not childhood wishes.

Thin film technology is already here and those panels will work even in cloudy conditions!

I bet they work at night too!?

They are not as efficient (as in less 10%) as the crystaline silicon which are the mainstream.

Thin film is being produced NOT because it is more efficient, it is currently targeted for environments where fragile SI cells would fail.

They use UV light to make electricity on cloudy days.

I hate to break the news to you, but UV is just a small portion of the total light spectrum produced by the sun. Percentages go WAY down. .....and could you shed some light on why SI does not work just as well?? Last I checked, Thin-Film is SILICON-based (the same electrical properties as crystaline cells).

on the market that will go 120 to 150 miles on a charge. All I need! They are expensive but costs will come down.

Solar cars have been available now for 35 years.....not from the big 3 or Japanese though.

Where I live electricity is cheap and electric cars would work very well.

Do you realize how much coal hydrocarbons are produced to make one KW electricity? Be responsible dude! You are doing more harm than good if you are still connected to the grid!

You couldn't be more wrong about electric zero emmission vehicles causing as much pollution as a gasoline powered car. Coal fired power plants produce energy at a constant rate.

That is silly! Put an e-car in every driveway and see what happens!

Besides you could always use a solar charger or a home based solar array to recharge the batteries. I work for large user of electricity. I could plug mine in at work and it wouldn't be a blip on the radar screen!

Now your stealing! Dude, you need to get your head out of the clouds!

[pullin-gs]

The recent discussion makes China bikes look palatable.

I love this thread!

With all the money I saved on my China-bike, I'm going to go out and buy a $25,000 solar panel to charge my $100,000 car that goes 120 miles!

...I'll be carefull on the WV potholes though...being that my lithium batteries are a wee-bit unstable and have a tendency to explode....maybe a solar-powered DS CHINA-BIKE! That will be on topic!

Cheers

Pullin'

[ambassador]

Corporate December 27, 2006

Kawasaki and Lifan Announce Business Direction in China

TOKYO, Japan, December 27, 2006– Lifan-Kawasaki Motor Co., Ltd., a motorcycle and power products production and sales joint venture of Kawasaki Motor Co., Ltd. and China Lifan Industrial Co., Ltd. (Group) in China, today announced that the company has agreed to change the scope of its business and allocate its corporate resources to a single focus on motorcycle power products business in order to pursue further growth in the years to come.

The power products market in China has been growing rapidly over the last several years especially for electric generators. By focusing on production and sales of power products, Lifan-Kawasaki will continue fulfilling customer needs and increasing the efficiency of its business with the goal of expanding both the size and profitability of the business. Lifan-Kawasaki will implement strategies to establish the new business plan while limiting any inconvenience to its current customers and business partners.

Kawasaki and China Lifan Industrial Co. have also agreed to further strengthen their technological partnership in the motorcycle industry, which was established in 2005. Toward this end, the two companies will strengthen dialogue at the top management level, cooperate in areas including intellectual properties and environmental protection and strengthen relationships in various areas including manufacturing technologies, quality control, and human resource development. Moreover, Kawasaki will add new models to be manufactured by China Lifan Industrial Co.

Kawasaki and China Lifan Industrial Co. formed a technological partnership and will begin motorcycle production in 2007, which will pioneer Kawasaki's operations in China. In 2007, the two companies established a joint venture, Lifan-Kawasaki, and will begin production of motorcycle engines (in 2007), which will evolve into the production of complete motorcycles (in 2009). The production of Klr,Kdx and Klx and sales of power products begin in late 2007

Right off Kawasaki's site...Hmmm...

[pullin-gs]

Hehehehee......

Does that mean I'll get a decent dealer trade-in on my LIFAN for the very-sweet KLX-250 I have my eye on?

Cheers

Pullin'

[XDragRacer]

Hehehehee......

Does that mean I'll get a decent dealer trade-in on my LIFAN for the very-sweet KLX-250 I have my eye on?

Maybe.

More importantly, this "globalization" means kiethco will receive fair value when he trades in his KTM on a Lifan.

[kiethco]

..........when they pry it from my cold dead hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pullin-gs]

Kawafan....kind of has a ring to it.?