Leatt pulled our account... similar story.

[Sticky Throttle]

You guys wait all you want...I believe the Leatt brace is protected by patents, so they ought to get plenty of competition when the patents expire, but we're all retired from riding. It's shitty what they've done, but if you feel the need for one, I'll pick my own safety as a priority over my desire not to support such a company.

If there's money to be made, patents are broken all the time.Do you think Leatt has the ability to compete against a large company like Dupont.If a large company wants to copy something and change a few things and sell it, they dont care about patents.They will buy a patient of their own and if someone want to sue them over it they'll just tie it up in court and suck them dry.

[odonnks]

I can't wait until a competitior comes out with a brace for less $$$

Its bound to happen fairly soon. I'll be waiting also.

[Jigggawatt]

I bought two for my boys . They're 8 and 9 and ride hard. With that said I don't know if anyone else will come out with a cheaper one. Have you seen the prices of good knee braces. I was going to buy one for me from TT. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do now. It ticks me off when a company acts in this way. I still feel better that my boys have them on.

[cms_austx]

If there's money to be made, patents are broken all the time.Do you think Leatt has the ability to compete against a large company like Dupont.If a large company wants to copy something and change a few things and sell it, they dont care about patents.They will buy a patient of their own and if someone want to sue them over it they'll just tie it up in court and suck them dry.

So you don't want to buy from Leatt due to their crappy business practices, but it's OK to buy from a company that steals patented intellectual property?

[rawwdog]

Do you have a link to the video that supposedly caused all this?

[Vampireracing]

It's darn near impossible to steal a patent. Look at all the products on the market today and how many different variations of the same thing has a different brand name.

Just a few examples: Traction control on some cars. Pontiac calls it TCS and GM uses a different name and yet BMW calls it by another. It's all the same though. XM vs Sirius. I-pod vs MP3 player. How about the first home computers. Anybody remember the Radio Shack TRS-80? Then shortly after Texas Instruments came out with the TI-99 4A. Or game consoles. Remember Pong? Then came the Atari.

The work around for a patent is that no one company can own a monopoly on a one of a kind product so all another company has to do is come out with a variation that doesn't meet the same design specs as the original. Most often this creates an improved variation.

Our society and market is now driven on alarmism and knee jerk reactions. People have become to lazy to do the research for themselves and are guiable enough to believe whatever the advertising tells them.

Leatt has used a very bad marketing strategy with scare tactics. Now it is kicking them in the butt. Leatt's penny stocks where frozen for 10 days as a punishment for a pump and dump scam that involved using spam mail to scare people into buying the stock causing it to increase in price "pumping" then the company share holders sell off their stocks at a huge profit "dumping". That tells me that this company is hurting financially. The production of the brace is way behind the demand and tells me that they didn't have the capital to produce enough product to put in warehouses. If Leatt corporation was looking far enough ahead they would have forecasted the need to produce more braces when they jumped all over the video that started this high demand.

Geoff Patterson the guy in charge of sales in the US is only making things worse for this company by pulling accounts and yelling at people on the phone. When the initial rush for the brace is all over and other companies have made their variations Leatt will be sorry for these bad business decisions that are being made now.

I'm all for safety and wish I could afford to buy one but I'm on a shoe string budget for riding and racing. So far I not impressed with the business end of the brace. Is this a sign of how "after the sale costumer care" is going to be handled? I hope not but I'm not going to fork over money to brand new company that has started off with a bad track record. What if I broke a buckle and need it replaced? I don't want to what 4 months for a replacement to come from the other side of the planet.

[CamP]

Is this a sign of how "after the sale costumer care" is going to be handled? I hope not but I'm not going to fork over money to brand new company that has started off with a bad track record. What if I broke a buckle and need it replaced? I don't want to what 4 months for a replacement to come from the other side of the planet.

I'm not going to discuss all the inaccuracies in your post but I will respond to this.

I know that their "after the sale, customer service" is excellent. I had a latch pin that had the threads over tapped from the factory, and Cindy from Leatt didn't just send me the one pin to replace the bad one, she sent me two complete sets of spares. She mailed them out the same day I talked to her too. They have 5 star customer service as far as this customer is concerned.

[cms_austx]

Dude, you're posting out your ass. First, you're making comparisons w/ non-patented products....and yes, a company can own a monopology on anything they have a patent on. How many DLP TV's have you ever seen w/o a TI chip?

Leatt's stock freeze was not punishment, nor was Leatt itself implicated in as participating in the spam. They were one of ~35 penny stocks frozen. For all we know, it could have been anyone trying to execute a "pump and dump" scheme - I suspect Leatt is prob. too busy trying to run the business to do that.

IIRC, much of their production is outsourced in China, and they probably have long lead times. Who could have ever predicted the huge demand spike they experienced after David Bailey's video? They just got lucky w/ that one!

I agree that their distribution practices stink, and feel they may be a bit short-sighted in trying to do everything direct. I'm a former LEAT stockholder, and made a great return over the week or two I held the stock. I may invest again, just hoping to get some better visibility to their results.

It's darn near impossible to steal a patent. Look at all the products on the market today and how many different variations of the same thing has a different brand name.

Just a few examples: Traction control on some cars. Pontiac calls it TCS and GM uses a different name and yet BMW calls it by another. It's all the same though. XM vs Sirius. I-pod vs MP3 player. How about the first home computers. Anybody remember the Radio Shack TRS-80? Then shortly after Texas Instruments came out with the TI-99 4A. Or game consoles. Remember Pong? Then came the Atari.

The work around for a patent is that no one company can own a monopoly on a one of a kind product so all another company has to do is come out with a variation that doesn't meet the same design specs as the original. Most often this creates an improved variation.

Our society and market is now driven on alarmism and knee jerk reactions. People have become to lazy to do the research for themselves and are guiable enough to believe whatever the advertising tells them.

Leatt has used a very bad marketing strategy with scare tactics. Now it is kicking them in the butt. Leatt's penny stocks where frozen for 10 days as a punishment for a pump and dump scam that involved using spam mail to scare people into buying the stock causing it to increase in price "pumping" then the company share holders sell off their stocks at a huge profit "dumping". That tells me that this company is hurting financially. The production of the brace is way behind the demand and tells me that they didn't have the capital to produce enough product to put in warehouses. If Leatt corporation was looking far enough ahead they would have forecasted the need to produce more braces when they jumped all over the video that started this high demand.

Geoff Patterson the guy in charge of sales in the US is only making things worse for this company by pulling accounts and yelling at people on the phone. When the initial rush for the brace is all over and other companies have made their variations Leatt will be sorry for these bad business decisions that are being made now.

I'm all for safety and wish I could afford to buy one but I'm on a shoe string budget for riding and racing. So far I not impressed with the business end of the brace. Is this a sign of how "after the sale costumer care" is going to be handled? I hope not but I'm not going to fork over money to brand new company that has started off with a bad track record. What if I broke a buckle and need it replaced? I don't want to what 4 months for a replacement to come from the other side of the planet.

[TeamTurtle]

I agree with slo-mo that there are two sides to every story. With no disrespect intended towards Mr. Peters, I wanted to share my dealings with Geoff Patterson.

I first contacted Geoff in January to inquire about the brace. I had read on the message boards that Leatt was slow to reply and was disappointed when I didn't hear back from him immediately. The next day I told my wife I couldn't believe it had been 24 hours and still no response. I considered phoning South Africa to see if I could get some answers. Instead, I decided to send Geoff an e-mail to give him one final chance. I was ready to join the "Leatt (the company, not the brace) Sucks" bandwagon.

As I was writing, I received a call from Geoff. He and I spent about 30 minutes talking about our mutual concern for rider safety and the impact we felt the brace would have. We talked about our sons and ensuring they are properly protected. He told me he and his son were at the race where James Marshall was so badly injured. In fact, that was what led him to take action. His friend, Jason McCune, pointed him in the direction of Leatt and, as a result, Geoff became the US Brand Manager.

I was able to meet Geoff at the Atlanta SX and he graciously gave of his time. He had no braces to sell but he was there to fit and help riders who were choosing to use the brace. In fact, while we talked, he was modifying Kevin Windham's chest protector but he continued to give me all the time I needed.

Geoff has an incredibly big responsibility as the US Brand Manager. There is currently no motorcycle product with anywhere near as much attention on it as the Leatt Brace. It is THE product in dirt bike riding. This product could (and hopefully will) revolutionize the sport. Most of us believe this is an excellent product and can't imagine why anyone would ride without it.

Before David Bailey's video, product was in short supply. After the video, all hell broke loose. The company wasn't even formed. There was no distribution system (other than Geoff). There were no dealers. Most importantly, there was no big, greedy, money-hungry corporation. There was Geoff - probably wondering how the hell he was going to get control over this 800 pound gorilla.

As for the TT issue, I don't have any idea what happened. I'm sure both sides feel they're in the right. I'm disappointed the response from many has been so negative towards Leatt, Geoff and, in some cases, the brace.

We all know it hasn't been perfect - and I'm sure Geoff would be the first to admit it. But I truly believe he is doing what he's doing for what he believes is the right reasons.

My bottom line is that Geoff is just like me and you. He's busting his ass to do his best. Let's not judge him or the product based on a product introduction where demand TOTALLY exceeded what anyone would have ever imagined. Just give the guy a chance.

And don't be tempted to join the bullshit bandwagon until YOU have a reason to do so.

Thanks.

[CharlieT]

I have known MR. Peters for years and have worked with him in designing some of the safety vests he manufacturers. I can say this without hesitation, his honesty and integrity are beyond reproach. I have no doubt that this Mr. Patterson acted and spoke in such a fashion to Mr. Peters if that is what Mr. Peters states.

Its too bad that Mr Patterson is too busy and has too much on his plate. That how ever is no excuse whatsoever for rude, obnoxious behavior.

Simply because he acted acceptably to some does not rule out the fact that he may act towards others in a complete and opposite manner.

[EddieTNT]

You did a lot of leg work to get the brace accepted and to arrange to be a distrubutor, but what it comes down to is; If it ain't in writing there is no agreement. That's business. Leatt has seen how popular the brace has turned out to be so they cut you out of the equation so as to maximize the company's revenue.

And, yes, Leatt is in business to make as much money as possible. That is the goal of any business even non-profits.

Don't take it personally its just the way of the world. I realize when I read this back to myself that the tone of this post comes off as a bit of lecture, but that's not how its meant. I'm on your side here.

[x-slayer]

but it's OK to buy from a company that steals patented intellectual property?

You're using Microsoft Windows aren't you?

[TheCure]

It doesn't seem like it is affecting sales that much since there is a damn back order for months. I sure as hell will never buy one. I dont care how many people say how great they are, I will NEVER do business with a shitty company like them. I will wait on another company to make one and use my 661 neck roll until then.

True that.

I'm 39. I don't race MX and I'm awful slow but that 661 and keeping a new helmet on is all I need to feel and be perfectly safe.

With a front end problem like this, I'd expect LEATT to be perfectly awful in support and warranty situations when all the clamor and hubub die down. Buyer beware. This is a dead end company if they do not change thier public presentation and corporate:busted: persona.

[Tiki]

While this thread exposes the weakness of the company, you folks do realize as popular ThumperTalk is, this will have NO impact on the product? Thumpertalk is one of the largest online communities and still not even a percent of those that are in the buying mainstream.

What is thread going to accomplish outside TT? People that are going to purchase the product will, those that wont wont. At present I am not going to buy that brace, but my reasoning is far from the company's willingness to work with a vendor or not.

Just some thoughts.

[El Marko]

I agree with slo-mo that there are two sides to every story. With no disrespect intended towards Mr. Peters, I wanted to share my dealings with Geoff Patterson.

I first contacted Geoff in January to inquire about the brace. I had read on the message boards that Leatt was slow to reply and was disappointed when I didn't hear back from him immediately. The next day I told my wife I couldn't believe it had been 24 hours and still no response. I considered phoning South Africa to see if I could get some answers. Instead, I decided to send Geoff an e-mail to give him one final chance. I was ready to join the "Leatt (the company, not the brace) Sucks" bandwagon.

As I was writing, I received a call from Geoff. He and I spent about 30 minutes talking about our mutual concern for rider safety and the impact we felt the brace would have. We talked about our sons and ensuring they are properly protected. He told me he and his son were at the race where James Marshall was so badly injured. In fact, that was what led him to take action. His friend, Jason McCune, pointed him in the direction of Leatt and, as a result, Geoff became the US Brand Manager.

I was able to meet Geoff at the Atlanta SX and he graciously gave of his time. He had no braces to sell but he was there to fit and help riders who were choosing to use the brace. In fact, while we talked, he was modifying Kevin Windham's chest protector but he continued to give me all the time I needed.

Geoff has an incredibly big responsibility as the US Brand Manager. There is currently no motorcycle product with anywhere near as much attention on it as the Leatt Brace. It is THE product in dirt bike riding. This product could (and hopefully will) revolutionize the sport. Most of us believe this is an excellent product and can't imagine why anyone would ride without it.

Before David Bailey's video, product was in short supply. After the video, all hell broke loose. The company wasn't even formed. There was no distribution system (other than Geoff). There were no dealers. Most importantly, there was no big, greedy, money-hungry corporation. There was Geoff - probably wondering how the hell he was going to get control over this 800 pound gorilla.

As for the TT issue, I don't have any idea what happened. I'm sure both sides feel they're in the right. I'm disappointed the response from many has been so negative towards Leatt, Geoff and, in some cases, the brace.

We all know it hasn't been perfect - and I'm sure Geoff would be the first to admit it. But I truly believe he is doing what he's doing for what he believes is the right reasons.

My bottom line is that Geoff is just like me and you. He's busting his ass to do his best. Let's not judge him or the product based on a product introduction where demand TOTALLY exceeded what anyone would have ever imagined. Just give the guy a chance.

And don't be tempted to join the bullshit bandwagon until YOU have a reason to do so.

Thanks.

If you have a personal relationship with Patterson as you imply here (and keep in mind that you're new here and nobody knows you), then perhaps HE should respond and explain his side of things.

He might start with the logic of dumping TT and Peterson as dealers who had promoted Leatt as something all of us should be wearing (free advertising of the best possible kind) and address the whole back order situation.

A LOT of us here run businesses or deal with customers on a daily basis. Damn few of us could justify (or survive the fallout) of some of his business decisions.

It's fine he's helping the pros like Windham, BUT Windham isn't even buying these out of his own wallet probably. He may have received it for free from Leatt, which is quite likely since the stars get most products free. Meanwhile there are a couple hundred thousand USA racers who want the product, will pay for it and can't get it easily.

[Tiki]

It's fine he's helping the pros like Windham, BUT Windham isn't even buying these out of his own wallet probably. He may have received it for free from Leatt, which is quite likely since the stars get most products free. Meanwhile there are a couple hundred thousand USA racers who want the product, will pay for it and can't get it easily.

Windham is a rather LARGE stockholder in Leatt?

[velosapiens]

My safety comes first.

well, i assume you mean your 'perceived safety' comes first. while it sounds like they've done their homework (especially in 'marketing through fear') it's also alot of dummy testing and analysis, and now the real CAD (consumer-aided-design) portion of the product development cycle begins. after a couple years we should be able to analyze the numbers and see what has happened.

will severe cervical spine trauma incidents be down significantly, with no ill side-effects?

will these injuries decrease, but only marginally?

will these injuries decrease, but increase the incidence of lower-spine injuries?

i'm glad there are lots of guinea-pigs to investigate this stuff for me. the whole issue has certainly raised my awareness of neck injuries and how much riskier many other activities (bicycling, hang-gliding, rock-climbing) are than motorcycling. in fact, a colleague here at the national fire center is in surgery today for a severe neck injury suffered in a mtn bike accident. i hope he turns out ok. i know a few other mtn bikers with titanium hardware in their necks now from similar injuries.

[velosapiens]

It is THE product in dirt bike riding. This product could (and hopefully will) revolutionize the sport. Most of us believe this is an excellent product and can't imagine why anyone would ride without it.

revolutionize the sport by allowing mx to become even more of an aerial sport?

where do cervical spine injuries rank statistically for frequency among motorcycle injuries? is it the leading cause of death? leading cause of disability?

i see a neck brace potentially being sensible protection for certain types of riding, but i don't see a revolution. i've read most of these threads on the brace, and i still haven't seen any statistics as to how frequent a disabling cervical spine injury is in our sport. otoh, i've seen lots of fear-inducing statements, and lots of deflections and subject changes, like "who cares what it costs, its better than living in a wheelchair", as if the only 2 choices where wheelchair or cough up $400.

seems to me there should be more scientific facts published and easily available to support the fanfare and hyperbole. feel free to point me towards them if you have seen such facts or data.

[Supafreak_711]

I wont have the money untill late in the summer anyways, so I'm hoping that someone else has already brought their version to the market.

[Utah Joe]

well, i assume you mean your 'perceived safety' comes first. while it sounds like they've done their homework (especially in 'marketing through fear') it's also alot of dummy testing and analysis, and now the real CAD (consumer-aided-design) portion of the product development cycle begins. after a couple years we should be able to analyze the numbers and see what has happened.

will severe cervical spine trauma incidents be down significantly, with no ill side-effects?

will these injuries decrease, but only marginally?

will these injuries decrease, but increase the incidence of lower-spine injuries?

i'm glad there are lots of guinea-pigs to investigate this stuff for me. the whole issue has certainly raised my awareness of neck injuries and how much riskier many other activities (bicycling, hang-gliding, rock-climbing) are than motorcycling. in fact, a colleague here at the national fire center is in surgery today for a severe neck injury suffered in a mtn bike accident. i hope he turns out ok. i know a few other mtn bikers with titanium hardware in their necks now from similar injuries.

Velo, I would be out of context with only "my safety comes first." I was reffering to the fact that issues such as disputes over distributorships would never sway me from protecting myself. You are correct in saying my perceived safety, there are no guarentees, unless you are talking about toasters. I mean the only two concussions I have ever had was while wearing my helmet, but I still ride with one. Likewise, the only times I have ever broken ribs is while wearing my chest protector. My reasons from going with the brace comes from A. a nagging neck injury I had while riding and a desire to not do it again. B. now many testomonials from people who have had some nasty get-off while wearing them C. TT's Dr. Mark's endorsement D. the fact that it does not effect my riding in anyway and is very comfortable E. even if I am wrong and it does nothing more than make me look like I have a ricer wing extending from my neck, I dont feel it will hurt more than it will help. F. at $400, I find it reasonably affordable.

I look at this device much the same way as I look at my rekluse. People are either loving it or hating it for whatever reason. I could careless what those reasons are, I know exactly why I bought it and I am very happy with it.