RMZ 450 Cranks locking up

[Paul061]

The only metal I have seen is a few slivers that are non metallic. The bike uses around 50cc's of oil between changes. I have a few more races coming up then a break. I'll do it during the break.

[bbailey]

OK how much is too much metal?since I've bought mine(06model)I have noticed some small pieces of metal in the filter when I change the oil,I change the oil AND filter every 3 rides.been waiting on it to grenade like so many posts on here say it will.try not to worry too much though,it is a great bike and if it quit tommorrow I would fix it without any hesitation.just a little curious where it is coming from.

[whipit1k]

any new bike will show some glittery crap in the oil and filter for the first couple of changes or at least the first oil change. Not a ton of it, just some- mostly from the gears in the tranny meshing. If your bike is well beyond break in and you consistantly notice shavings in the filter,you are right to be concerned

[Glassman66]

whipit1k

I stand corrected on "douchebag", I need to listen to the King of Douchebags, he'd know the correct spelling.

So back to where we were, Douchebag. I appolgize, King Douchebag, GET THE **** OFF OUR FORUM and clutter whatever poor brand you picked up and bring that forum down with your bitchy attitude.

I guess the bitchy attitude goes with that douchebag.

Thanks for improving my spelling douchebag.

[keithb7]

My 06 had some small sliver sized flakes after the first oil change after new. I now am on my second season of recreational trail riding. I change my oil every 1-2 rides, using standard 15W40 dino-oil. Not a single sliver in filter since the first oil change. I am an experienced rider, but have never raced. I rarely ever hit the rev-limiter. I have owned the bike since new, and will continue with my maintenance practises of regular oil changes, timing chain and valve adjustments. I seriously doubt my crank is going to explode. If it does I'll sure b i t c h on here and let everyone know my dis-pleasure. So far I have about 20 rides on the bike, I average 2 hrs or so of riding each time I go out. I should get an hour meter I suppose.

Keith

[suzuki 101]

OK how much is too much metal?since I've bought mine(06model)I have noticed some small pieces of metal in the filter when I change the oil,I change the oil AND filter every 3 rides.been waiting on it to grenade like so many posts on here say it will.try not to worry too much though,it is a great bike and if it quit tommorrow I would fix it without any hesitation.just a little curious where it is coming from.

My crank bearing went bad in my 06. From what I've found out the shavings if it is from the crank they will be metal. Next time you change your oil lay your oil filter in a paper towel. Take a magnet to see if it will pick up shavings. If no shavings are picked up by the magnet I wouldn't worry, if it picks up metal you may want to look a little deeper. If you do have crank problems it's better & cheaper to catch it early. Rebuilt mine & it's still going strong.

[honda163]

My crank bearing went bad in my 06. From what I've found out the shavings if it is from the crank they will be metal. Next time you change your oil lay your oil filter in a paper towel. Take a magnet to see if it will pick up shavings. If no shavings are picked up by the magnet I wouldn't worry, if it picks up metal you may want to look a little deeper. If you do have crank problems it's better & cheaper to catch it early. Rebuilt mine & it's still going strong.

I agree, same here. Caught mine early as well. Also, mine was using a bit of oil every ride (from factory fresh). Doesn't use any since the rebuild.

[honda163]

whipit1k

I stand corrected on "douchebag", I need to listen to the King of Douchebags, he'd know the correct spelling.

So back to where we were, Douchebag. I appolgize, King Douchebag, GET THE **** OFF OUR FORUM and clutter whatever poor brand you picked up and bring that forum down with your bitchy attitude.

I guess the bitchy attitude goes with that douchebag.

Thanks for improving my spelling douchebag.

Wow. He really pissed you off didn't he? Why though? Maybe because he is bashing a product you bought and are very happy with? That's understandable. I love everything about my Suzuki also (other than the lower end failure). Yes, maybe Whipit is beating it a little harder than others. But hell, don't hate him for using a public forum. Put him on your ignore list if he bugs you that much.

Maybe sit back and try to understand just how pissed you would be if you were one of the lucky with a lower end issue. We can argue how many failures there are compared to units sold all day long and never know who's opinion is correct. The fact is, there are units out there with the exact same wear to the wrist pin. If you looked at my pin you would agree it is made with bad/cheap material. Hell, even the wrench at the shop agrees. How many we will never know, but there have been some defective parts used in these bikes. I don't think for a minute that Suzuki went to their supplier and asked for shit wrist pins. What pissed me off was the bullshit response I got back from the factory service rep that evaluated my complaint. He said I must have sucked dirt in to the lower end causing the failure. Oh yea, and that was before the cases were even split. I bet cyclepop can even comment on how hard it would be to suck dirt into the lower end of one of these 4 strokes.

Whipit has good input to many of his posts. If you guys would just let him vent and get it out of his system vs agitating him...?

[Trick188]

Wow. He really pissed you off didn't he? Why though? Maybe because he is bashing a product you bought and are very happy with? That's understandable. I love everything about my Suzuki also (other than the lower end failure). Yes, maybe Whipit is beating it a little harder than others. But hell, don't hate him for using a public forum. Put him on your ignore list if he bugs you that much.

Maybe sit back and try to understand just how pissed you would be if you were one of the lucky with a lower end issue. We can argue how many failures there are compared to units sold all day long and never know who's opinion is correct. The fact is, there are units out there with the exact same wear to the wrist pin. If you looked at my pin you would agree it is made with bad/cheap material. Hell, even the wrench at the shop agrees. How many we will never know, but there have been some defective parts used in these bikes. I don't think for a minute that Suzuki went to their supplier and asked for shit wrist pins. What pissed me off was the bullshit response I got back from the factory service rep that evaluated my complaint. He said I must have sucked dirt in to the lower end causing the failure. Oh yea, and that was before the cases were even split. I bet cyclepop can even comment on how hard it would be to suck dirt into the lower end of one of these 4 strokes.

Whipit has good input to many of his posts. If you guys would just let him vent and get it out of his system vs agitating him...?

haha i'm not sure he has much good input he has though, everyone of his posts read the same where he whines and bitches because he had 1 problem (although somewhat major) with his used bike. Most people would have moved on a long time ago...

[MountainDog]

Attached is a thread about the crank issues:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467626&page=2

I posted on 2/13/07 that mine went out and I took to the shop. I just got the bike back 4/10/07 from the shop, $1392.00 later. My crankpin looks worn in the center like the pics in the thread above. The needle cage stayed intact, but with the metal coming off the crankpin, both oil pumps were damaged, the piston skirt scuffed to hell, cylinder scuffed, etc. I had just done a top end about a month before ($600), so none of the $1392 in parts/labor included any head related parts. Since a new cylinder costs $500 from suzuki, my shop instead had it re-electroplated at a place that many race shops take theirs too as it's better than factory, only charged me their $200 cost. We put the ProX rod/crankpin/bearing kit in it as it's better materials than stock.

I'm definitely convinced that there is a metallurgy issue with the crankpins (mine was one of the first '05s by the way if that means anything). I routinely changed oil & filter every 4 hours, used best synthetic oil, kept air filter clean, only rode MX practice. I didn't do anything on my own to cause this failure.

To support those here that say this is an issue that only happens once in a while, the local mechanic said it's the first he's seen in his shop with the crank issue. I asked him about the Prox and he said I won't have any problems. I then asked him how many hours before I have him tear down and install new crankpin bearing and he said 'at the 4th top end' and he was recommending a top end at 20 hours, so that would be 80 hours. Labor for complete motor teardown to get to that crank bearing is about $500.

Fortunately I kept my '04 RM250, so I had something to ride for the last 2 months. Oh....and by the way....on my 1997 RM250, 1999 RM250, 2001 RM250 and the current bike, I've never had to worry about or change the crank bearing/crank pin. I did have 3rd gear transmission blow ups on the 1999 and 2001 due to what became commonly known as bad heat treating of 3rd gear.

Bottom line: Suzuki has had demonstrated heat treating issues of parts in the past. No matter how much people here say the people with crankpin failures are 'whiners', you can't escape the fact that there ARE documented crankpin failures in the RM-Z450, even with owner's doing proper maintenance. It seems to occur around 50-60 hours when it does. Looking for magnetic chips in the oil filter along with the 'motor making more rattling noise' sounds like good determinate signs to rebuild the motor as mentioned earlier.

The RM-Z450 looks great all fixed and shiny and clean....it's now in the back of the garage with a cover over it. I'm having fun on the two-stroke with about the same lap times.....maybe I never start the RM-Z450 and wait and see what the '08 RM-Z450 offers...then sell the '05 as 'freshly rebuilt engine, so fresh the new owner can do the break-in'.

[Glassman66]

All I'm saying is he needs to stop crying and just get on with it. This bike sucks over and over is meaningless.

I'm currently spliting cases on a CRF450R because my Honda cam shelled and took out my crank bearings. I don't bitch I fix it. I've got mty cases split right now.

Now let me try and see how this goes.

HONDA :ride: :ride:?

Honda ? :ride:

Honda ??

Yeah that's real helpful.

[afm_722]

+1 on Trick188 and MountainDog. Even though I "caught" it early, my 34 hour '06 needs the cylinder replated, crank, oil pumps, etc. So, to put it in a better light, I got a good deal on the bike $6400 OTD, so now I guess I have a KTM at full price ($ ~ 1,500 in parts/labor). Ride on.

[joedit]

Does anyone have pics of a RMZ crank?

Are there thrust washers between the crank and rod?

[rmz4503250]

cause all these guys dont change oil

[MountainDog]

cause all these guys dont change oil

Do you even bother to read any of the posts before spitting out your stupid comments?

Did you notice what I wrote?: "I routinely changed oil & filter every 4 hours, used best synthetic oil, kept air filter clean"

[joedit]

What weight oil do you use?

[MountainDog]

Does anyone have pics of a RMZ crank?

Are there thrust washers between the crank and rod?

I don't think so....click the links:

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0375/crankshaft/crankshaft.bmp

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0375/crankshaft/crankshaft.cfm?man=su&groupid=11250&parent=11240

[joedit]

Thanks for the info.

[MountainDog]

What weight oil do you use?

Suzuki Synthetic racing 15W-50:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Accessories/detail.aspx?modelId=a697f811-2bc3-4ade-ae6f-3dea7c78113c&accessoryCategoryId=21f82a97-3f93-4fe3-a9c4-e348af1c82a4&accessoryId=2cb01416-2ad6-47fe-a540-d3cf19e51807

[afm_722]

cause all these guys dont change oil

My hour meter and manual with my notes for checking valve clearances, timing chain, clean air filter, and changing oil don't lie. Changed oil and cleaned air filter every 2-3 hours, changed oil filter every 4-6 hours.