NVRFNSH, what would be the definition of the word,seems????????? In your next sentence, you said the same thing I said. Why is mine bull**** and yours is not?

I know this is a very upsetting subject and I am upset also but all of us can work it out together. Lets stay focused.

These same groups tried to ban mountain bikes in many areas years ago. The truth is, loud pipes are just the excuse for the latest attack on all mechanized modes of off road travel. After they get their way with loud pipes, next it'll be knobbies tearing up the earth. Or riders going to fast and endangering others. Or loud colors on motorcycles scaring Bambi. Eventually they will chip away at our right to enjoy our sport.

If you don't like loud pipes, then get a quieter pipe. Personally, if I could find a pipe that puts out the HP of my White Bros or the stock WR pipe un-corked, I'd get one in a heartbeat to save my aging ear drums. But so far, I haven't found one. (Yes I think those vortips are nice and quiet but the SUCK in the power category).

By the way, a few months ago, I was sleeping at 3:00 am and a local harley guy rode past my house, rattled my windows, and set the alarm to my truck off while I was parked in my own driveway. I had to get up and turn the sucker off! A-hole! ! ! Now who is pissing more people off? That fat F*^% or me riding at Rampart with other dirt bikers?

Use common sense. But DON'T give in!

Bryan in Denver...

It looks to me most of the people intrested in this thread realize just putting a quiter pipe on your bike is not going to stop the enviro-nazi's from coming forth.

I'm actually intrested in how many people would spend another 200-300 dollars just to try to appease all the anti-dirt biker's.

And like Bryan said, Go ahead and buy that Q-series pipe and see how long it is before they turn their noses in another direction.

I would suggest wearing earplugs...

Seriously, I hope it's just a matter of time before the aftermarket companies begin do do power vs noise research and begin to produce quiet, powerful mufflers. It's no use pissing and moaning about it--there's a lot more of them than us--so we're all eventually just going to have to adapt and get quieter mufflers. Or figure out how to jet crisply with the stock baffle in.

But I DO think earplugs are a good idea. If you don't currently use earplugs, you would be surprised how much less fatigued you feel just from wearing them.

Originally posted by Tree hugger:

NVRFNSH, what would be the definition of the word,seems????????? In your next sentence, you said the same thing I said. Why is mine bull**** and yours is not?

Treehugger - I read your post to imply that there are no noise regulations that apply to the obnoxious harleys & psuedo race cars. My bull**** comment was directed at that. There are limits for street driven vehicles there just isn't a bunch of organized people complaining about them.


Originally posted by Rich in Orlando:

Seriously, I hope it's just a matter of time before the aftermarket companies begin do do power vs noise research and begin to produce quiet, powerful mufflers.

Sorry, in order to silence the tone of our machines the pipe would have to be the size of a trash-can or restrict the flow considerably(baffle). The sound wave is just too large to quite with a small-unencumbered muffler.

But, an interesting problem is coming quickly to the environmental nazis. I saw a demonstration of a fuel cell drag bike a while back. Still completely experimental, but it beat a gas powered machine down the track handily. They don’t weigh anything, don’t make any noise and don’t pollute. Given that it is an electric motor – they have tons of torque!

You will see the Greenies real color (red) when these start showing up in the forests! They won’t have anything bad to say (except maybe for your color comments Bryan). They will have to admit to being fascist prima-donnas who just want the forests for themselves. And God forbid, you get too many of them together. They’d be throwing hemp and tofu at each other.

Just sounding off... But I feel better now - hummm...

Originally posted by Jake:

They’d be throwing hemp and tofu at each other.

And the hemp part would be a bad thing how? :)

Quiet non-power robbing mufflers would not be as big and heavy as you imply. KTM has done a respectable job already. Honda is supposedly the king of R&D and they are getting shown up by an upstart austrian company.... Where the heck are they in this fight? Where the hell is Yamaha? They have the ability to design/produce these bikes but they can't make them respectable w/o resorting to the pea-shooter plug? Give me a break.

I'd like to see a true blind comparison between different exhausts - power, noise, wt, Lap time, 100yd time - w/o any of the hype that the magazines currently have. I really don't believe that 99% of us could make use of the increased power.



Thanks for the update, and thanks for showing up and fighting for our rights!

For all of us: We need to keep in mind that the enviros have won most of their battles with Detroit automakers and their megabucks. The only thing that beats their political pressure is huge numbers of registered voters pushing in the opposite direction. There is no substitute for a united response.

Please channel all the anger and frustration into action by supporting some of the organizations such as ARRA, BRC, and CORVA. If we just quit fighting about the details and worry about who the real enemy is, we will survive this. Send letters to elected officials so enviros are not the only voice!

You don't need a quiet pipe unless you interface with the general public (who are mostly non-riders). They ultimately determine the outcome. If you piss them off, your days are numbered. This battle is far from over. Tell a friend.


My two cents. Many of my buddies here ride with loud pipes. I used to have loud pipes also. No matter what logic you use, I don't believe one could intelligently deny that loud pipes are turning the average public against us. Just go try to have a nice lunch in the woods, by a stream, with your family. 4 or 5 of our dirt biking buddies come through with loud pipes and it sounds like there is a thunder war coming. Small children are frightened.

Loud Harleys or Nascar racing are not the issue. The issue is many want to take away our dirtbike trails and loud bikes are good ammo for them. When the general public enjoys the outdoors and we come thundering near them, there is a good chance they will complain. If enough people complain, decision makers will listen.

I suggest a different mindset. When you're bombing down a snow run, or catching a great wave you just hear the rush of wind or water. The thrill is speed and the rush of sailing through the air. After experiencing this, I think the perfect dirtbike would be powered by a silent energy source. The next best thing is a quiet bike to me. Do I need all that noise to enjoy the moment, Heck no! applies. Walk softly and carry a big stick!! Let's keep our trails around. My ears can't take this stuff anymore anyway!

Good riding to all.


[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: mikem ]

I agree! We are becomimg our own worst enemies. A common thread is how obnoxious Harleys are. The issue is not Harleys or motorcycles but noise! And we like motorcycles!

We can all agree that the eco-nazis do not want our bikes in the forests or public lands no matter how quiet they are. What they will do is use the noise issue to turn the other 90% of the population against us. They may not know about snail-darters or desert pupfish, but they know when you go ripping by them on your 103 decibel YZ during their picnic.

If you want to go faster, buy a suspension revalve or a steering dampner instead.

Most important, register & vote!



I understand. I used to live in Ga. But here in SoCal, no family ever has a picnic in most places where we trail ride. It is too hot in summer, too cold in winter, and too dry spring and fall. There just are no people except dirt bikers and off-roaders. Further evidence that noise is just a false issue. It is control of access they want.

As I mentioned earlier, each of us has to decide whether we interface with the general public. If we do, a quiet bike definitely presents a more friendly picture. If not, there is no one to hear anyway.

If we keep adding $.02 at a time, we will soon have enough money to pay the bigshot attorneys!


Thats the thing! We all have to remember that we don't all ride in the same kind of places. Out in the middle of the desert if there is no one around to hear your bike is it still too loud? In other places loud bikes are simply not appropriate. I don't really mind sound limit requirements in the forest. But, you also cannot ride your bike as fast in the forest as you can in the wide open desert. It is common sense. In the forest I use a 13 tooth primary. Whereas in the desert this really doesn't make much sense. Taller gearing is the way to go. I think the same argument could be made about pipes. If you limit bikes to certain designated areas and people in seperate areas the conflict should be mitigated. It is not safe be be hiking on a single track trail when some bike could come ripping around the corner at any time. It is also not safe for the bikers if they cannot hear oneanother for the same reason. On some trails there is not enough room to pass without going off the trail. That is also a big issue with the greenies and forest service - that we stay on the trails. I have had one head on collision and I was lucky. I am more than a little concerned about bikes being too stealth just for safty reasons. And the discussion continues.............


Have we set a new date yet?


Not yet Dan. Send me a PM and lets talk about it. Thanks, Paul

Im curious as to where the majority of the ThumperTalkers stand on this issue so I devised a poll.

If you have any intrest in particapating you can vote here.

Thanks. And please dont vote more than once so we can get a fair count. :)

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: MOmilkman ]

Just some infor- they are already checking dbs. My

friends where out at Gormon,calif. and they were stopped by the rangers for a sound check!my friends ktm520 barely passed,and was told that in the future his bike would not pass the test.

I guess if your gonna spend money on a pipe, it

should be a 96 or lower.

If you all think that the "noise" is the issue here, you need your heads exammined.......The noise is just the latest excuse. Someone made reference to Nascar racing, another to Kart & I am a avid road racer in SCCA as well as a spectator to most road racing events including F1.

This is in my mind the latest attempt by morons in government influenced by groups like the Sierra Club & the rest of the enviromentist that have decided our sport needs to be killed off. There already is noise constraints to ride in National forrest & ORV areas. I have been (My WR w/ ESeries & Header)tested by the Park Service in some of these areas and have passed. Now they want to make the test more stringent or make the bikes more quite. I say $%$#%$ off & die...If you have ever been to a Nascar race w/o ear plugs, your ears will ring for days afterwards....Where is the priority here? I beleive in personal freedom & this country seems to want to take more away from me & everyone else each & every year. When is it going to end? When we become a Socialist country I suppose. Our sport will always be the target for these Enviromentlist groups......this is the fact & I am damned tired of it, them & the rest of it!

Some of you guy's kill me....I am literally laughing my A$$ off here.....

"Can't wait to get my self propelled quiet suspension"

"I'll have to look carefully while I'm in the ORV areas for those picknic baskets.....Hey David I'll be Yogi and You be Boo Boo....I smell a free lunch somewhere."

Welcome to Yamaha Comedy Central....

Bonzai :)

Bonzai, aka "BOO BOO", I guess you are right, although you know I am on a diet & very picky about what food goes in my mouth. Mike I do not believe I have ever seen anyone "picnicing" in the ORV areas that we go riding in, although I have come up on a couple doing the wild thang! You should have seen how quick the clothing came on when the "sound of thunder" came upon them! Heck in this case they really would have been caught in the act with the quite pipe answer.....

Damn, I never thought about a free sex show due to quite pipe syndrone! :):D


Now your starting to see the possibilities of quiet pipes! In discussing different points of view it's good to find commonality! :)

Yamakazi (Yogi) - there's nothing better than having a picnic in the middle of an ORV area!! :D Actually, I think point well made by you and others regarding where you are riding. ORV areas/Private ATV parks - Loud pipes OK. Recently, we've been taking barely street-legal dirtbikes down the fireroads and tight jeep trails and cut off on un-marked trails all through North Ga. Hundreds of miles of some incredible trails/narrow roads. (The uphill water breaks make some fun jumps!) I feel closed in on a 6 - 15 mile ORV loop. I like the freedom to go miles and miles. Just this week, we traveled 40 something miles through adjacent private farm/landowner trails originally cut by 4 -wheelers. We have permission (some direct, some in-direct) from a number of farmers/landowners. I think quiet pipes help keep that freedom, vs. being stuck in one of the few small ORV areas/atv parks we have to choose from.

If you guys come upon my picnic, stop and have some chicken! (but give me a minute to put my clothes back on!)

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