Concord meeting-Eldorado National forest DEIS

Just got back from the final meeting in concord. The meeting was very well attended 300+ standing room only. Some things I pulled from this meeting are-

The forest service said it costs 800 dollars per mile for trail maintence per year. It costs 30 per mile per year for trail monitoring.

The seasonal closure was brought up again and again they stated that even in dry years the months of Jan., Feb., Mar., the soil conditions are not right for OHV usage.

Make your comments personal, about the things you care about, even if a trail is on the alternative comment that the trail is important to you. If you make general comments like alternative d sucks and alternative A is great your comments won't carry much weight.

A couple of enviro types stood up and spoke and one in particular reminded me what where up against. He was an old man and he talked about how in the 50's his family went to the Eldorado for a week, and he's always remembered that trip, and wants it to stay pristine so one day his grandchildren can visit the forest. This man drove from San Francisco to Concord to express his view based on one trip he took 40 or 50 years ago! This kind of thing is why groups like the sierra club are so powerful.

The forest service had a voulnteer sheet at the door and on the way out almost everyone there signed the voulnteer sheet which was cool to see

Don Amador from Blue Ribbon Coalition was there and gave a little talk that was very well recieved.

So check out OldeDudes thread on DEIS comments to get some ideas and get those comments sent in.

bye bye miss american pie.

The Blue Ribbon Coalition has forwarded a legal request to the Eldorado NF to extend the time for comments and seek addtiional input for other alternatives.

http://www.sharetrails.org/uploads/PL/FS/SEIS_request_FINAL_08.02.07.pdf

Keep informed and active

Ride on

Brewster

CERA...assistant LAO

It would be very interesting to see the Forest Service's response to that letter.

The FS can't extend it too long because they have to comply to the court order by Dec. 2007. Of course they drug their feet and got the DEIS out late. :thumbsdn:

The FS can't extend it too long because they have to comply to the court order by Dec. 2007. Of course they drug their feet and got the DEIS out late. :thumbsdn:

They could always ask the court for an extension. I asked Tony about that months ago during one of the phone conferences, at the time he said that the FS would not consider it. I still doubt they would consider it now, unless this BRC letter opens their eyes a little bit.

wow good job BRC! I'm sending more money to BRC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Below are links to video from the Aug. 2 Public Meeting in Pleasant Hill, CA regarding the

Eldorado National Forest's DEIS on Travel Management.

A California Enduro Rider Assn. representative asks the agency why there are such short public review

and comment periods when it took the Forest Service over 2 years to produce the DEIS and they want

to have the FEIS completed by Christmas 2007? Agency explains that the court order and complex issues

etc. are the reasons.

Over 300 off-roaders pack house in what many describe as the largest off-road oriented meeting in Bay Area

history. Most question the proposal to close about 75% of forest routes to OHV use.

The public comment period ends on Sept. 4. The BlueRibbon Coalition filed its request for an SEIS on

Aug. 2.

http://www.sharetrails.org/uploads/PL/FS/SEIS_request_FINAL_08.02.07.pdf

when BRC send in it's comments , I want to see THAT letter.

Good Job ALL! way to go Don Amador!

From the AMA-D36 website, posted by Chasejj, CERA Member.

After attending the meeting in PH last night it became obvious to me that the old adage "follow the money" applies in this fight for trails.

I asked a simple question "Where is the budget analysis for the implementation of each of these plans". My thinking is they obviously have crunched these numbers as they seem to frequently offer the costs associated with maintenance and when planning ANYTHING at that level they are required by law to do so.. The answer? None. They would look into it.

I would think it is of paramount importance that we force the FS to disclose this information as it is critical to their organization in making this decision. My feelings are that this is what is driving their alternative route decisions. The selection of which trails is not the central issue which will drive their decision.

It will ultimately come down to what it costs THEM to manage the trail system and here is the key point.

The capital costs to implement the best plan for THEM to manage will be the highest cost alternative in today's dollars which is our tax and OHV monies. Closing trails costs much more money than leaving it open today, but costs considerably less to manage over the long term.

It seems to me that in the interest of public disclosure and a transparent system of decision making requires the FS to disclose the "Implementation" costs of each alternative.

They are intentionally hiding it, IMHO.

lt is obvious that the FS does not respond to the will of the majority but, to lawsuits and court orders. They will only extend the comment period if someone like the BRC forces them to.

ya know despite the alternates all close many trails and the seaonal closure closes trails unfairly, in the end do we get what's left totally and forever now solidly reserved and protected from the greenie attacks? Maybe in the end at least we can celebrate that the remaining trails systems are now protected from further greenie attack?

or in 2-4 years will the greenies find yet another reason to close us out like red stickers, global warming, asbestos health or maybe just plain summer dust can kill you....or the birds don't like us, etc, or weed travel, etc.

will this BULL SHIT ever stop? is this EIS trail designation loser battle be the final loss we will suffer? or just another in a long line?

....... will this BULL SHIT ever stop? is this EIS trail designation loser battle be the final loss we will suffer? or just another in a long line?

My bet is that this is just another step towards the eventual elimination of OHV use on public land. We are fighting to prolong the process, and the more we lose now the less we have to fight for in the future. With less miles of roads and trails for our growing community to recreate on the greater the impact will be on those miles we have. That will be the next battle, as the anti-access groups will attack again citing that we are causing :blah::blah::blah:

ya know despite the alternates all close many trails and the seaonal closure closes trails unfairly, in the end do we get what's left totally and forever now solidly reserved and protected from the greenie attacks? Maybe in the end at least we can celebrate that the remaining trails systems are now protected from further greenie attack?

or in 2-4 years will the greenies find yet another reason to close us out like red stickers, global warming, asbestos health or maybe just plain summer dust can kill you....or the birds don't like us, etc, or weed travel, etc.

will this BULL SHIT ever stop? is this EIS trail designation loser battle be the final loss we will suffer? or just another in a long line?

I think about that every day! Will this all be a moot point if the Caples Creek/Dardanelles Wilderness proposal becomes law? Yes. There's a 58% reduction in trail from Alt. A to Alt. D, so more and more people will be crowded into fewer trails resulting in user conflicts and resource damages. Then they can say - "See all this damage that OHV use causes!" :banghead:

Hopefully the BRC can keep up the fight-give money until it hurts!

"give money until it hurts"

amen.

In PH last night, I had noticed the 4 Sierra Clubbers when the Ranger Susan(?) asked who supported the off road viewpoints and the whole place went nuts. She then asked for the other or opposing side, and at least one of the 4 raised their hand.

You have to watch them closely. Grandma Sierra Clubber went on one side of the room, Grandpa Clubber on the other. She said she was from SF and wanted clean air, no noise, tranquility, etc in ENF. Eventually, Grandpa Clubber spoke about his time 50 years ago in ENF, etc, etc. He actually got a round of applause as many people did not know that he represented the other side. Then, one of the other Clubbers got his chance to speak and he says " I belong to 17 different organizations that have over 1 million members." He was NOT talking about off road organizations! He was concerned that the FS had not taken into consideration the deer migration areas. Hmmm. This type of person knows more than he/they are letting on. I saw them leave and went out side to ask him why was he so concerned about deer migration and also about who would make that determination. He said Fish & Game would know that info as he does not know. Somehow, I don't believe he was being honest! Go figure!!!! He seemed to have that self righteous smirk as he walked away.

Yeah, I can believe that little BS smirk he had on his face. The other side is not stupid-they're well organized, well connected. As I've stated before it's hard to fight enviro. science when it's based on an agenda instead of solid scientific evidence. The whole green movement has considerable holes in philosophy and implementation, but that doesn't matter because when a person speaks out the media bashing machine gets ramped up and slams ya. :foul: :foul: :foul:

Gave another $50 to BRC to fight the El Dorado DEIS.

I have read thru the alternatives and was at the PH Meeting and I am preparing to begin writing my comments.

The question I have is that they (Jason & Lester) kept referring to "only specific route comments will be considered". I prefer more global comments typical to the flaws that ChaseJJ had listed above. If I comment on global types of issues rather than "route specific" issues, will my comments be summarily dismissed and ignored ????

I'm a little confused as to how to attack the issues. One little item at a time or bigger issues such as those that Chase has listed ??

Comments ..........???

In any of the previous meetings or through personal contact with the forest service personel, has anyone asked how many miles of roads and trails were NOT maintained during the last year that needed to be?

Is there actually a problem?

Ride on

Brewster

CERA...assistant LAO

ya know despite the alternates all close many trails and the seaonal closure closes trails unfairly, in the end do we get what's left totally and forever now solidly reserved and protected from the greenie attacks?

Absolutely not! As a matter of fact they said the map will be updated every year to adjust to the changes that have been identified during that year. That means that once the entire OHV community has had to cram onto the few trails we have, damage will occur and then they will have to shut them down as well. Their entire approach is counter productive, as mentioned in the meeting last night. They said "we may even be adding trails if necessary" but that is a damn lie to me.

They kept saying that they did not have the budget and one person asked "if you had no budget and all the money you could use to do what ever you wanted, would trails still close?" the answer "YES". :foul:

"We need to close certain trails because they can't cross water"FS

"My club will build a bridge and maintain it for no charge" OHV user

"send it in writing and we will consider it"FS

Why the hell didn't they consider that before their "plan" was created?:foul:

They will be receiving my letters, and my kids, and my grandma's, and my uncles, and my dog, and from the f'n street pole out in front of my house. I have a phone book and I might have to represent for a few others that share my opinions...

Some of my wheeling buddies are going to have a letter writing party, are you guys thinking of doing that at all? Just a thought?

JW

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