Please Help - can't cold start

[DaaL1973]

yep, plug is brand new and seems good, but i think i might try another one, just in case, any preferred brand?

[William1]

Stock should be fine.

[MutualBill]

NGK CR8EK.

Dual electrode plug.

[RobotMachines]

How DO you get it started eventually to know it's a cold start issue?

[DaaL1973]

it starts with a lot of throttle fiddling, usually i find choke off, twist and release throttle a couple of times gets it going,sometimes this only works if i connect up a car battery or if the bike battery has been on charge overnight, as soon as the bike has been started, i can switch off the engine and it will fire right back up again, or i can warm the engine up and then shut off leave it for a couple of hours and it will still fire up, only when it has been left a long time (overnight) and is stone cold will it not fire up easily

[DaaL1973]

this is why it's such a PITA to test anything...i have to wait overnight to see if anything i have tried actually has any effect!

[William1]

I did not realize you had to have the choke OFF. You have an overly rich condition.

Try this. Disconnect the fuel line (make sure you put a container under the end to catch drips.

Let the bike sit till you are in a 'cold start' situation. Re-connect the fuel line and give it a go. Choke on, no throttle twisting. Also, check the catch container, any fuel in it?

[SNIPER5565]

Plugged air filter?

[DaaL1973]

re: air filter, have tried with air filter removed - no change

thanks William, I will try that

[DaaL1973]

William - re your last post, what am i looking for here?, you do remember my fuel tap is the res/off/on type not the vacuum type dont you? i usually just leave it "on", should i turn it off overnight?

[William1]

Yes, turn it off!!!! You carb is slowly seeping fuel into the engine thereby causing an excessively rich condition. you should alaways turn it off when not riding. You will want to do an oil change now too as I am sure you have fuel diluted oil.

[DaaL1973]

here's the latest, i stripped the carb yet again, just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE the carb is clean! i set the fuel screw to 3 turns out, like it says in the book, because i want to start from the "Standard" settings.

I put the carb back on the bike and turn the petcock on, choke out no throttle - turns over and gives a bit of a pop, nothing to get excited about, so half choke no throttle - turns over and tries to fire up, but dies again before it gets going, so on to No Choke, no throttle - same as half choke so i twist the throttle and it starts up, but dies again when i let off the throttle, so i turn the throttle stop screw out until it runs, then when the bike is warmed up i let the screw out until it just idles nicely.

leave the bike overnight (petcock OFF), try to start it this morning, I get exactly the same thing as before except this time the bike fires up and idles nicely with NO CHOKE !WTF , i run it all day and it idles just the same when hot as when stone cold, WOT IS GOING ON HERE!

PS. sorry for long winded post, i just want to give as much info as poss!

[William1]

Well, first, it looks like your pecock is leaking, which is why it is impossible to cold start, bike gets flooded sitting.

You next issue is too rich a pilot setting. When the bike is up to operating temperature say after a nice ride, with the bike idling, turn in the fuel screw. It should stall either just before or right when the screw is in all the way. If it will not stall, you need a smaller pilot. Open it back to about 2 turns, start the bike. Start to close the screw. As soon as the bike sounds rough, open the screw till it smooths out. Reset the idle speed if needed, then revisit the fuel screw.

If the bike will not stall with the fuel screw in all the way, your pilot jet is too rich. Put in the next size down and do the adjustment routine.

[Shalaw]

I got a similar problem, bike's been acting up since last week.

I will go and try a bunch of the stuff you guys are talking about here .

At first, I needed to give it some gas when I wanted to cold start it ( with some choke ) And It wouldnt idle 'til the engine was warm, then I had no problems starting it again.

Now I have to bump start it with the choke on when it's cold, and choke it + fiddle the throttle to start it when its hot.

I have a 04 DS'd "E"

[DaaL1973]

just to let you know that i will come back and finish this thread to, hopefully, let you all know what the problem was (nothing worse than following a thread when you have a similar problem then it just dissappears without indicating what the cure was )

but in the meantime i have a more serious issue to sort out https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543872 , so bear with me on this.

thanks everyone for all your help so far (especially William1 ? )

[DaaL1973]

wow, it has been a hell of a job getting the bike stripped down and rebuilt, but here we are at last, back to this starting problem. The bike is now exactly as it was prior to the last post.

Warm start is fine, hot start is fine, bike runs fine once going, just cold starting is a PITA.

I have followed William1's procedure for setting the fuel screw, and the bike does exactly what he says it will, runs poorly/ stalls if the fuel screw is turned too far in, then i back it out a bit.

problem is then i get NO cold starting at all, choke in/out throttle fiddling whatever doesn't even give a pop. At least with the screw 3 turns out (as per manual) i can get a few pops and start it eventually. Any further ideas?

PS. when the bike was running and i followed Willliam's procedure, i tried pulling out the choke, it behaved exactly as expected, ie increased idle speed at half and again at full choke.

[William1]

Ok, so hot start is fine. Just cold start, choking seems to do nothing but, if it is running, pulling the choke, does increase RPMs. When you had the carb out, did you make a note of the size of the starter jet (should be a 65, I think).

Are you able to check/comfirm hot idle speed, ie, it should be 1500 rpm.

[DaaL1973]

starter jet is 62.5, i think this is standard?

not able to confirm idle speed - i just set it to a nice steady tickover just above he point where it starts stalling, and i have noticed if i have it any higher then the bike absolutely will not start. Just how critical is the idle setting?

[Wayward Son]

its just cranks and cranks till it eventually starts?what about if you give it shot of starting fluid thru the air box?

[DaaL1973]

not exactly, if it wouldn't start then just keeping it turning over wouldn't get it going, i had to fiddle with the choke and throttle, I actually think I may have it set right now (idle speed/fuel screw), it fired up with full choke this afternoon for the first time since this problem started. I will have to wait till it's dead cold tomorrow tho' to be sure.

should the idle speed/fuel mixture really need to be so precise to get good starting, surely there should be a bit of leeway, which I dont seem to have!