'05 TE510 Front Fork Re-Valve

Just re-arranged the shims on my base valve in the front forks. Have had a problem with rocky terrain and front end is too stiff. I'm about 200lbs with gear and 6'1", over 40 rider.

After a short ride seems much better. Hit some rocks I did not even feel. Still have the compression clickers all the way out and did not bottom. http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif

Found this listed as stock shim stack online:

Base Valve

Stock

Dia Thk

23 0.15

23 0.15

12 0.10

23 0.10

21 0.10

19 0.10

17 0.15

15 0.15

13 0.20

Mine had the same diameters but the 23's are .10, not .15 mm thick:

Base Valve

Original

Dia Thk

23 0.10

23 0.10

12 0.10

23 0.10

21 0.10

19 0.10

17 0.15

15 0.15

13 0.20

I modified it as follows:

Base Valve

8/4/2007

Dia Thk

23 0.10

23 0.10

21 0.10

19 0.10

17 0.15

13 0.20

This mod was from "didtza" at dirt bike world dot net.

Just re-arranged the shims on my base valve in the front forks. Have had a problem with rocky terrain and front end is too stiff. I'm about 200lbs with gear and 6'1", over 40 rider.

After a short ride seems much better. Hit some rocks I did not even feel. Still have the compression clickers all the way out and did not bottom. http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif

Found this listed as stock shim stack online:

Base Valve

Stock

Dia Thk

23 0.15

23 0.15

12 0.10

23 0.10

21 0.10

19 0.10

17 0.15

15 0.15

13 0.20

Mine had the same diameters but the 23's are .10, not .15 mm thick:

Base Valve

Original

Dia Thk

23 0.10

23 0.10

12 0.10

23 0.10

21 0.10

19 0.10

17 0.15

15 0.15

13 0.20

I modified it as follows:

Base Valve

8/4/2007

Dia Thk

23 0.10

23 0.10

21 0.10

19 0.10

17 0.15

13 0.20

This mod was from "didtza" at dirt bike world dot net.

8/12/07

testing with modified shocks and forks. Rode some rough rocky terrain at moderate speeds, 15-30mph shows good performance. :applause:

Clickers on forks at:

Reb -18

Comp -3

May be too soft for sand whoops if so looking at adding the 23x0.1mm back into the stack for more LSC.

Will make seperate post for shock mod.

oops, double post

Is the TE equipped with 45 mm Shiver fork? I am about to revalve my GG FSE450 '05 which has a Marz Shiver 45.

I too have a hard time over those rocks, I am 40, 6' and at 260lbs in full gear.

With base valve, are you referring to the compression shim stack in the bottom of the fork?

Thanks for sharing a setup that works.

Is the TE equipped with 45 mm Shiver fork? I am about to revalve my GG FSE450 '05 which has a Marz Shiver 45.

I too have a hard time over those rocks, I am 40, 6' and at 260lbs in full gear.

With base valve, are you referring to the compression shim stack in the bottom of the fork?

Thanks for sharing a setup that works.

Yes, the TE has 45mm Shivers. I'm suprised even at 240 you still think they are stiff, thought maybe I was either too light or too slow or both. Have you put on the correct spring for your wieight?

Yes I changed the compression shims on the base valve at the bottom fork. I think I'm going to add a couple of the larger shims back to try to get back a little low speed damping.

Only trick I found was using an air wrench to get the bottom adjuster nut off and the back on. The manual recommends a special tool to keep the inner part from spinning, but I've heard people say they don't use it. The impact wrench is a little scary but seemed to work well.

I also did my rear Sachs shock and that was a big improvement but same thing, I think I will add some shims back in and see how it feels. What shock do you have?

The GasGas fork setup works nicely when going slow and in rolling whoops and g-outs, but gets worse as I start to pick up speed over rocks and stuff. I have to hold on very tight not to have the bars get ripped out of my hands.

Stock base valve is:

22x10

22x10

11x10

19x15

11x10

17x15

15x15

13x20

My new setup is kinda radical, but what the hell, I'll just do them again if they are undriveable(is that a word?)

22x10

19x15

17x15

15x15

I made a special tool to the hold the cartridge out of a vacuum cleaner tube.

I don't like the violence of an impact wrench and the Shiver manuals says NOT to rotate the internals of the fork, because it will block oil flow holes in the cartridge bottom.

Stock fork springs are 4,2N/mm, I use one stock and one 4,6N/mm.

Rear shock is Öhlins.

I have yet to test this setup. This evening will tell if the fight between ignorance and luck will go in my favour...

This setup worked pretty good. It was now muck better for rocky trails. Some bottoming occured in larger whoops at high speed, but I can live with that.

The first test felt really awful, bike was unstable on small rocks and roots, felt like a flat tire. Which it was. :bonk:

Now with the flat fixed the bike handles fine. On an enduro yesterday on a very rocky trail I managed to climb to the middle of the scoreboard, as opposed to my normal bottom position. A lot of riders struggled hard with the terrain, as I danced the bike around. :ride:

It was no problem to just go head on and over soccer ball size boulders.

I am currently running 110 mm of 7.5wt fork oil and I might try a 120 or 130 level, just to get that trials fork feel to it.

bergerhag

Looks like you stack would be pretty soft compared to mine. Wonder if the oil weight and height makes that much difference. What does you Sherco weigh?

I'm running 90mm of 5.0wt synthetic oil and stock spring is 4.8N/mm. Bike is 240lbs.

It's a Gasgas..

Bike is 127 kg fully fueled and ready to go. Thats 280 lbs.

I found the base valve has little effect on initial plushness. Going light on your base valve shims will make the fork soft all-round and will allow more dive in the front under brakes, etc. I've experimented with various base valve stacks but ended up returning to the original:

23 x 0.15 mm (definately 0.15mm)

23 x 0.15

12 x 0.10

23 x 0.10

21 x 0.10

19 x 0.10

17 x 0.15

15 x 0.15

13 x 0.20

For a nice feel in rocky terrain, firstly check you have the right springs to hold the front up in the stroke. Standard springs (.48) are good up to a rider of 90kg. Fill the fork with true 5wt oil to 95mm and set clickers to mid position.

The 45 Zokes move the majority of fluid during smaller low speed hits through the mid-valve check plate and clicker orrifices. Higher speed hits will un-seat the base valve shims to help reduce spike but will have little to no effect on smaller hits. The springs and air spring (air gap) take care of the initial movement.

Increasing the air gap makes a big difference in plushness.

Most people who ride my bike comment on how planted the front feels and supple it is over nasty terrain.

Hope this helps your campaign...:thumbsup:

Thumpin

I will agree the forks are a little soft now, but great in the rocks. Will consider your suggestion. I was going to try adding shims back in starting with the larger ones.

What do you think of the 2-stage stack, can you tell the difference with or without the 12 x 0.10 in there?

Thumpin

I will agree the forks are a little soft now, but great in the rocks. Will consider your suggestion. I was going to try adding shims back in starting with the larger ones.

What do you think of the 2-stage stack, can you tell the difference with or without the 12 x 0.10 in there?

RTG

The std base valve shim stack is generally viewed as being a hard combination, but when you take into consideration of how oil flow with the Z45 design, its not the case.

Suspension experts try a range of methods to address binding and plushness. Some say that reducing bush stiction by machining bush locating lands to reduce bush contact area is the answer. It might achieve a result but I think good results can be obtained with much less hassle.

To answer your question: The 2-stg stack works well. Without the the cross-over 12 mm shim the highspeed mid-stroke was noticeable firmer. I also tried a 11 mm shim but I couldn't feel any noticeable difference.

Removing one of the 23 x 0.15 shims from the piston side of the cross-over shim is a reasonable alternative it you prefer a softer high speed dampening. This would help a little in rocks at speed but would not effect lower speed plushness.

A friend of mine has a 2005 TE450. I stripped down the forks to do a service. The base valve piston has small oil flow holes that direct the oil to the shims (as you would have seen). These holes were filled with factory assemble grease which highlighted that fact that no oil flow was passing through the base valve during normal riding conditions. My friend rides at a moderate pace.

I left the std shim stacks in place and filled 5wt oil to 100mm from top, made sure the triple clamps were not over torqued, aligned the fork legs on the axle before tightening axle pinch bolts and set clickers to mid position.

After playing with the clickers a little, my friend says that the forks are the best he's ever owned. Final clickers were comp- 8 out, reb- 10 out.:thumbsup:

Best of luck.

Hey Thumpin_along,

Seems so easy to just try out the oil change to 100mm as you suggest. Should have done that first but read so much about how these forks need re-valved so I started playing. It is kind of fun.

I thought the larger shims controlled low speed damping. Wouldn't taking out the 23x.015 do more to the low speed. I have found all of the sizes play a part, still not sure if you can change the HS without changing the LS.

Got any suggestions on the shock. Check out my post if you get a chance.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541099

Thanks

you need to look at kevins post on valving a shock, coventional thinking will not help you on valving.

you need to look at kevins post on valving a shock, coventional thinking will not help you on valving.

Man I hear you there. I looked at it last night. Graphed all of the force numbers and just got more confused. They all look like the same shape curve just displaced up or down a little bit. Only one seemed to get a little more LS and less HS like I want. How could all of those different configurations give such similar results?:thumbsup:

Sure is cool that you guys post this stuff, even if it only confused me. I want a shock Dyno.

The reason is most people beleive if they remove shims from a hs stack it reduces hs, thats rubbish, its reduces damping overall, same with shims in the low speed stack, 2 stage stacks soon become a single stage when riding as the first one hits the second at most normal fork speeds IMO.So again you have a single stage stack in effect with maybe a tad less low speed.

Its very hard to alter the basic nature of damping, the fork is actually harder as it has the mid and the lift thats we can adjust, this makes many variables.

I worry when i see riders(with tc forks) alter the outer fork oil weight/amount, the base, the mid and the lift and the BCV shims stacks all at the same time and hope to get the magic combination.

mog,

Do you think most suspension tuners do more than just change shim stacks? Seems like for $400-$600 there should be a real improvement not just softer or harder. So far I like the changes I've done better than stock but it does compromise the performance for some types of riding. Getting it to work well for both sand whoops and rock gardens would be a real challenge.

it varies on the bike a lot, on the 05 rmz i used to mod the compression adjuster, the top out plate and the compression/rebound.However most modern shocks dont need all that, on the showas most tuners have found something that works for them and some mod the mid valves and i hear some port the spring guide, you cant really say what some do and dont as it vaires a lot, the crf showas for most riders here just need to be a little more plush.

The old kybs on the rmz also needed a few mods and they were never a great fork, we are lucky now with nearly all bikes having tc forks and decent shocks you should be able to get close with the adjustments you have, its the heavy and light riders who will always need help.

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