Clutch still slipping "after installing new clutch"

[ivtriedeveryusername]

OK here is the deal. Old clutch started slipping in 4th and 5th, changed the oil, but put in car oil. Clutch started slipping worse with the car oil in it, changed the oil again to shell advanced SX4 15-50 motorbike oil after no more than 40-50kms. This did nothing to the slipping problem at all, if anything it made it slightly worse.

Bought a EBC clutch kit and put it in, also replaced the clutch pressure plate as I broke the old one installing the clutch.

New filter and oil, cleaned out the mesh filter, so no old oil should have been in the bike at all.

When installing the new clutch checked the thickness of the old driven plates and drive plates compaired to the new ones, they were the same thickness to the eye. (I dont have a set of calipers to measure the exact thickness) So I figgured that the car oil had some sort of friction modifier that was soaked up by the plates and causing the slipping.

before installing the driven plates cleaned them with degreaser as they came with some sort of orange/brown rust preventing shipping coating. Soaked the drive plates in oil.

Tightened everything as per the manual.

Freeplay of the clutch lever is correct.

New springs came with the new clutch, new springs were around 6-8mm longer than the ones that came out.

Replaced the oil with the same Shell advanced SX 15-50 motor bike oil as was recomended by the Suzuki dealer.

On full pull the clutch release arm is 90' to the engine.

Now the clutch slipps in every gear whilst getting any more then half throttle.

How can this be?

Can enything else be worn like the clutch sleve hub thickness? Washers etc that could be causing this slipping? The only other thing that I think that it could be, would be the oil that Im using, although the dealer was adiment that this is the correct oil and wont cause the clutch to slip.

Iv only ridden the bike about 8kms in the hope that maby there was to much oil on the plates and they would by some magic start gripping.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[Rick Morehouse]

Is that oil synthetic? If so I would say that may be what is going on.

[Fariborz]

Did you ever touch the screw on the clutch master cylinder that some people mistakenly think it is the lever adjustment screw?

If yes, you might have turned in too far that is causing the clutch to engage.

-Fariborz

[ivtriedeveryusername]

Is that oil synthetic? If so I would say that may be what is going on.

It is a synthetic fortified oil. This is the oil recomended by the the Suzuki dealer, I did state that it was to take a 10-30, and he said that its no longer made and that this is the oil to use.

Did you ever touch the screw on the clutch master cylinder that some people mistakenly think it is the lever adjustment screw?

If yes, you might have turned in too far that is causing the clutch to engage.

-Fariborz

Cable operated clutch, not hydraulic.

I forgot to mention that its a 95 DR650.

[ProCycle]

Are you quite certain there isn't something assembled incorrectly? Maybe the clutch release mechanism is a tooth out? On some bikes it's easy to get the pressure plate installed 90 degrees away from it's correct alignment which won't allow it to seat all the way into the clutch assembly.

Since you will probably have it apart again looking for the solution I would stack all the old plates together and compare the overall thickness of the old clutch pack with the new ones. Double check the clutch kit part numbers to be sure you didn't end up with plates for a 96 model. Sometimes an aftermarket clutch pack has an overall thickness a bit less than stock. In those cases we have put one extra plate in to make up the difference. I'd also compare the remains of the old pressure plate with the new one. Just to make sure you were sold the correct item.

Does the clutch lever pull feel significantly different? Way harder or way easier than before? That could be a telltale sign of something that is not assembled right. The new springs are likely to make the lever pull slightly harder but not a radical change.

I would not be one to blame the oil. Some folks have experienced a slipping clutch after switching over to synthetic but that only happens if their clutch is just about used up. The synthetic can be slippery enough to allow a nearly worn out clutch to slip but a clutch in good condition will work fine and a new clutch won't slip just because there might be a little residue of the old oil still in the motor.

[ivtriedeveryusername]

And here is a pic.

Are you quite certain there isn't something assembled incorrectly? Maybe the clutch release mechanism is a tooth out? On some bikes it's easy to get the pressure plate installed 90 degrees away from it's correct alignment which won't allow it to seat all the way into the clutch assembly.

Since you will probably have it apart again looking for the solution I would stack all the old plates together and compare the overall thickness of the old clutch pack with the new ones. Double check the clutch kit part numbers to be sure you didn't end up with plates for a 96 model. Sometimes an aftermarket clutch pack has an overall thickness a bit less than stock. In those cases we have put one extra plate in to make up the difference. I'd also compare the remains of the old pressure plate with the new one. Just to make sure you were sold the correct item.

Does the clutch lever pull feel significantly different? Way harder or way easier than before? That could be a telltale sign of something that is not assembled right. The new springs are likely to make the lever pull slightly harder but not a radical change.

I would not be one to blame the oil. Some folks have experienced a slipping clutch after switching over to synthetic but that only happens if their clutch is just about used up. The synthetic can be slippery enough to allow a nearly worn out clutch to slip but a clutch in good condition will work fine and a new clutch won't slip just because there might be a little residue of the old oil still in the motor.

As far as I can tell it all went back in correctly.

The clutch is far easier to pull in now, easier and smoother, I put this down to the fact that I filed off the wear marks from the cage, some of which were quite deep. I have done this in the past and it has smoothened up the clutch and stoped the bike from jumping when put into gear, also the old pressure plate had deep wear marks on it.

There was a difference in one part of the new clutch. This being that the clutch drive plate #8 above, wasnt as thick, it was the odd plate out as in it didnt have notches in the fingers of the plate, so I assumed that this was where it should go.

I dont belive that it is possible to get anything a tooth out or 90' out as it is all the same. ( I think). Every second finger on the drive plates #10 had a semi circle notch in them, I did allign them all up, but must admit that I didnt look to see if they went in a particular way, which now has me thinking why on earth they would be there? as they sit flush with the outside of the cage.

The replacement parts are the correct items except that #8 plate wasnt as thick as the original, it appeared to be the same thickness as the other plates.

I will pull it all apart again. Will measure the thickness of the original stack height and the new one. Although the manual dosnt give a stack height or driven plate thickness, only drive plate thickness.

Manual states for a slipping clutch. 1. clutch control out of adjustment or loss of play. 2 weakened clutch springs. 3 worn or distorted pressure plate.4 distorted clutch plates, driven and drive.

What is the clutch control or loss of play? I understood it to be the freeplay and clutch release, is this correct?

Where you say may have to add an extra plate, do you mean drive or driven and where would you add it?

One more thing, the clutch that came out had a thin bit of wire running around the clutch sleve hub, holding the wave washer and first plate in place. The manual dosnt mention this, but somewhere i remember reading that without this the clutch wont disengage.

Thanks for the help so far.

[Shannon DR650]

I had the same issue with my sons Blaster last week. When I pulled it back appart I had put the pressure plate on 90 deg out. Once I put it on correctly everything worked great. Hope yours is a simple as that.

[ivtriedeveryusername]

Pulled the clutch apart again tonight.

Took about 10 minutes this time to have the thing sitting on the bench.

Carefully inspected the assembly to find that, the pressure plate will fit in anyway, it cant be out.

The new springs that came with the clutch are longer, but thinner and take less pressure to push in.

Assembled it (sort of) out of the cage, to find that the first drive plate will spin under slight pressure. The rest of the plates are riged, obviously not rigid as the clutch slips, but rigid to my fingers.

At first I thought that the wire holding the first drive and driven plates was preventing the stack from closing up completly. But the two washers, one flat, the other a wave washer were preventing the first driven plate to close onto the first drive plate.

Lost of hair pulling later, I approached the other half to give her a crash course in how I think a motorbike clutch works, 2 minutes later, glased look in her eyes she says, look here, the note in the manual says, Check to be sure that the wave washer seat and wave washer are properly installed. To which Im thinking yeah, yeah they are installed.

But on closer, closer inspection, id installed the wave washer upside down.

Plan on putting it back in tomorow night. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[chipgibbs]

I've had a 1991 DR650S for about 8 years and have had more clutch problems than not. I have built up the engine with every performance part

I could get my hands on and the clutch has never been able to hold tight in

4th or 5th. This is especially true with the 16 tooth front sproket.

I have used Suzuki clutch parts, EBC, Vesrah etc. The latest is a Barnett

full Clutch pack, all steels, clutches and springs. I had to order it through a dealer as it is no longer kept in stock any where. Unfortunatly, I have also sent my seat to Rick Mayer so I can't tell if the latest clutch is any better than the rest.

If you find the problem with yours, please let all the 1st gen DR owners know what you found.

ChipG

[mxrob]

Pulled the clutch apart again tonight.

Took about 10 minutes this time to have the thing sitting on the bench.

Carefully inspected the assembly to find that, the pressure plate will fit in anyway, it cant be out.

The new springs that came with the clutch are longer, but thinner and take less pressure to push in.

Assembled it (sort of) out of the cage, to find that the first drive plate will spin under slight pressure. The rest of the plates are riged, obviously not rigid as the clutch slips, but rigid to my fingers.

At first I thought that the wire holding the first drive and driven plates was preventing the stack from closing up completly. But the two washers, one flat, the other a wave washer were preventing the first driven plate to close onto the first drive plate.

Lost of hair pulling later, I approached the other half to give her a crash course in how I think a motorbike clutch works, 2 minutes later, glased look in her eyes she says, look here, the note in the manual says, Check to be sure that the wave washer seat and wave washer are properly installed. To which Im thinking yeah, yeah they are installed.

But on closer, closer inspection, id installed the wave washer upside down.

Plan on putting it back in tomorow night. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

The lighter springs are a big problem. More pre-load won't make up for a spring with a lower tension.

[OGslip]

On 1/8/2008 at 4:15 AM, ivtriedeveryusername said:

Pulled the clutch apart again tonight.

Took about 10 minutes this time to have the thing sitting on the bench.

Carefully inspected the assembly to find that, the pressure plate will fit in anyway, it cant be out.

The new springs that came with the clutch are longer, but thinner and take less pressure to push in.

Assembled it (sort of) out of the cage, to find that the first drive plate will spin under slight pressure. The rest of the plates are riged, obviously not rigid as the clutch slips, but rigid to my fingers.

At first I thought that the wire holding the first drive and driven plates was preventing the stack from closing up completly. But the two washers, one flat, the other a wave washer were preventing the first driven plate to close onto the first drive plate.

Lost of hair pulling later, I approached the other half to give her a crash course in how I think a motorbike clutch works, 2 minutes later, glased look in her eyes she says, look here, the note in the manual says, Check to be sure that the wave washer seat and wave washer are properly installed. To which Im thinking yeah, yeah they are installed.

But on closer, closer inspection, id installed the wave washer upside down.

Plan on putting it back in tomorow night. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Did this work? I have the same exact issue with my ‘93 DR350 down to the EBC clutch pack. Trying to digitally diagnose. 

[Captzoop]

With the clutch out and plates removed. Did you inspect the clutch basket? The fingers should have been smooth. If there were small groves along the sides of the fingers beyond grinding back smooth you need a new basket replacing the plates well it’s just a waste of time and money