The KTM 200 Club

[Reno1986]

Hello everyone! 
 

Thank you for the answers!  I was looking at the carb and the ovalisation of the needle jet. No signs of great wear or oval hole. 

I allready changed the block seals. They were really only hard pieces of rubber. No good! 

But it all made no difference? 

Maybe it is the oil, but so much spooge in this short time and the very lean jetting only from oil? 

Thanks again

 

Reno 

[Flo-Orange]

What about the silencer packing? Could be due if it has been 10 years...

[eddy]

Flow is correct NEDW. That needle will make a huge difference. The inlet seat as well as the Needle jet orifice wear out.

[nobade]

Needle jet wear is why I got rid of my carb. I couldn't see it with my eye, but looking at it with a loupe I could tell. Just .0005 out of round is enough to mess it up. But yeah, try the Suzuki needle first. You'll be able to tell if it's right by how it runs.

[kxrob]

6 hours ago, Reno1986 said:

Hello everyone ! 

I own a 200 EXC 1998.

Completely fresh motor. About 14 Bar of compression. 

I live at 1000feet and temp is about 0-30 Celsius over the year. 

 

I have massive problems with spooge. I use a gnalry pipe and an 250 exhaust from a model from 2008. 

My setting is now : 

- JD red clip 4 (second from top) , 

- pj 42 or 45 depends on temp 

- mj 180 

- carb 38 

Mix is 1:50 Castrol synthetic.

If I go leaner on the pj it detonates when the motor is hot . Otherwise it runs great. 

After 20km of riding the spooge drips down the exhaust. 

 

Can anyone help me out ? 

 

Thanks 

Reno 

NEDW clip 2 15-30c

necw clip 3 0-15c

you will have to drop your main jet down as well

15-30c i use a 165-168

Edited July 5, 2018 by kxrob

[eddy]

X2 on detecting wear in the carb body. I had problems you could not see that remained - even with new correct parts. Replaced carb, (with my tuning parts) then was good to go w/o any issues. Look around for deals on the real item and avoid the Chinese fakes. 38 mm Air striker should be available from multiple sources.

BTW you may also like to try a 7.0 slide.

[Red NT]

Dump the 38 for a 36mm. Use the Suzuki needle. My '98 had a 39mm and I could never tune it right. Just make sure genuine not chinese

[kxrob]

3 hours ago, Red NT said:

Dump the 38 for a 36mm. Use the Suzuki needle. My '98 had a 39mm and I could never tune it right. Just make sure genuine not chinese

If the 38 is still in good nick it works well

[mog]

The 38 works good on my 150

[th1npower]

Parked this over in the jetting thread for 3 wks w/o anything so trying here..

 

Since the summer and getting into higher elevations having trouble w/ idling - ASO 3 1/4 to 3.5 turns to get idle.  Pulled the plug and it was quite rich so picked up a syringe and measured oil much more specifically to get exactly 60:1. Recently running near 9000 ft and it still had tough time w/ idle and slight hesitation initially, but then runs strong all the way up until tops out - using softer map switch for rocky, rooted trails.  Only thing that has changed is I'm using Bel-Ray filter oil (prior owner just used No-Toil and tossed every 3 rides)... 

I did squish the living shit out of the filter to get any extra oil and was able to get about 1/4 - 1/2 turn in on the AS.  Should I go down to a 35 pilot? Are many guys running them.. afraid of going to lean?? Otherwise, would changing needle position or a different needle help?

 

Year: 08
Model (E,W,XC,M): XC-W
Carb size (38 or 36mm): 36 stock
Slide: 7.0
Main jet: 170
Pilot Jet: 38
Air screw (turns out): 3 1/4 - 3.5
Needle model/Clip position: Uncertain - can't see if it says any markings on the needle - it appears to be single taper. Clip 2nd position.
Altitude where you ride: 3200 - 9000 ft
Average temp: 40 - 85
Reeds - VForce3
Pipe/silencer - FMF Turbine Core Spark Arrestor
Head mod: None

Other mods: None
Type of fuel - Premium 91

Oil:  Injex, Phillip 66 (came w/ bike) 60:1

Gnarly pipe

Spark Plug:  BR8-EIX
Where in the powerband do you ride: lower to middle end of powerband - very rarely on the pipe unless near home on big hill climbs.

Degree of satisfaction: satisfied - wanting to get the idle sorted then would be very happy
And finally: how much spooge 1) none, 2) little, 3) medium, 4) lots . Very little

 

Very appreciative for any help!

Micah

[nobade]

I'd drop the needle all the way and see how it is. Then try a 35 pilot, and if still rich go to a good known needle. NECK worked for me, the really lean starting diameter was the trick here at 7000 ft in the heat.

[eddy]

1) Suzuki NEDW needle.

2) If that does not work get a new Keihin carb and install your tuning parts.

[Reno1986]

Hello everyone!

Thanks a lot for your answers! 

So you mean I spent the money for the JD kit for nothing?  

Is it common that the older 200 engines detonate if they get a little lean? 

I will order the needle right now, and test it when I get it. 

But - is it common to have such a lean main jet with the Suzuki needle? I made the experience that my motor has less power when I go leaner than 180 on the main. 

Packing is allright, allready changed it because it was soaked in oil (terrible smell....).

If all fails, then I need to order a new carb. Any "cheap" sources in Germany or Europe? 

Thanks again

Reno 

[Reno1986]

Hello again,

 

found this guy on ebay:

http://stores.ebay.de/Frank-MXParts/Keihin-FCR-needles-jets-/_i.html?_fsub=3945762014&rt=nc&_pgn=3&_ipg=48

This is no advertisement, it's just to help me. Tell me which needles you would order, because I can't find the NEDW, only NECW. 

Or any other needle? I guess I remember something about DDK from another thread but I'm not sure.

Thank you very much!

Reno 

[eddy]

Here is your needle:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/NECH-Duesen-Nadel-Keihin-PWK-PWM-PE-PJ-Vergaser-NEC-H-jet-throttle-needle-38-39-/192196282236

It is one step richer than the NEDW. Recommended due to your machine being fairly high on compression - if I am doing the math correct. 14 X 14.7 = 205 lbs.

With that needle, a 42 pilot and a 185 main should be very close in your 38 carb. If not: It is new carb time based on my experience.

[kxrob]

5 hours ago, eddy said:

1) Suzuki NEDW needle.

2) If that does not work get a new Keihin carb and install your tuning parts.

that needle isn't the best for elevation

[kxrob]

7 hours ago, th1npower said:

Parked this over in the jetting thread for 3 wks w/o anything so trying here..

 

Since the summer and getting into higher elevations having trouble w/ idling - ASO 3 1/4 to 3.5 turns to get idle.  Pulled the plug and it was quite rich so picked up a syringe and measured oil much more specifically to get exactly 60:1. Recently running near 9000 ft and it still had tough time w/ idle and slight hesitation initially, but then runs strong all the way up until tops out - using softer map switch for rocky, rooted trails.  Only thing that has changed is I'm using Bel-Ray filter oil (prior owner just used No-Toil and tossed every 3 rides)... 

I did squish the living shit out of the filter to get any extra oil and was able to get about 1/4 - 1/2 turn in on the AS.  Should I go down to a 35 pilot? Are many guys running them.. afraid of going to lean?? Otherwise, would changing needle position or a different needle help?

 

Year: 08
Model (E,W,XC,M): XC-W
Carb size (38 or 36mm): 36 stock
Slide: 7.0
Main jet: 170
Pilot Jet: 38
Air screw (turns out): 3 1/4 - 3.5
Needle model/Clip position: Uncertain - can't see if it says any markings on the needle - it appears to be single taper. Clip 2nd position.
Altitude where you ride: 3200 - 9000 ft
Average temp: 40 - 85
Reeds - VForce3
Pipe/silencer - FMF Turbine Core Spark Arrestor
Head mod: None

Other mods: None
Type of fuel - Premium 91

Oil:  Injex, Phillip 66 (came w/ bike) 60:1

Gnarly pipe

Spark Plug:  BR8-EIX
Where in the powerband do you ride: lower to middle end of powerband - very rarely on the pipe unless near home on big hill climbs.

Degree of satisfaction: satisfied - wanting to get the idle sorted then would be very happy
And finally: how much spooge 1) none, 2) little, 3) medium, 4) lots . Very little

 

Very appreciative for any help!

Micah

i would change the oil as it is not designed for dirt bikes 

that's a far swing from 3200-9000

you might look into a smart carb/lectron

where did you look for the needle markings ? should be underneath the bottom clip position

[eddy]

I have used NEDW up to 8K in a 38 and Rob may be correct at 9K and a 36 it could be rich.

 

[Pwilliamson222]

i would change the oil as it is not designed for dirt bikes 



that's a far swing from 3200-9000



you might look into a smart carb/lectron



where did you look for the needle markings ? should be underneath the bottom clip position

Well that sounds like a total PITA. Try Motored low smoke oil for starters, I run mine at 50:1. I also run a Lectron carb. The bike runs great all the time with almost no spooge at all and no smoke once it's warmed up. My jetting consists of adjust the idle once during the shoulder seasons and takes 10 seconds. Fuel economy is on par with a fuel injected bike and runs bacon crispy on the throttle.

If you're thinking of replacing the carb anyway just grab a Lectron and go back to enjoying riding.

[mx4god]

3 hours ago, kxrob said:

that needle isn't the best for elevation

I used an NEDW in my 08 xcw at 9-13k a couple years ago and it worked well. I'll be bringing it again in a few weeks for a backup bike.