MXA 2008 450 shootout

[HollywoodMX]

I read denial too. There's no way a brand new (6 hrs. on bike) bike should have broken during a shootout. MXA did nothing that would cause this and it's not an isolated incident. There's no excuse and anyone who is even slightly objective would be able to see that. People need to stop endorsing bad products just because of brand loyalty. Call it like you see it.

Say what you want positive or negative about the 08 Suzuki....but this bike is so plaged with problems for a first year attempt that Suzuki will not even release them way after they have been assembled. I applaud them for this, as liability from failures and accidents are not what is in Suzuki's best interest. Ironically this reminds me of the TM400 from the 1970s. I hate mag bike test also, too many different variables to be 100% objective, but come on...there is a inherent problem here. Releasing the 08s to proracers is one thing...releasing them to the general masses is another, as most TM400 owners found out....Hello, anyone else remember this?

This 08 is completely different than any previous RMZ and in my opinion should have been released as a 09 to work all this crap out before production runs. The potential is there.....just not yet

Werd. I'm new to bikes, I have no loyalties. KTM, Yamaha, honda, gas gas, what ever. I think its the opposite, there have been many complaints in magazines, forums, so its not the objective green, red, blue, etc, riders being supposed haters its the yellow brand loyalists that in denial of these issues. If you look at peoples sigs many people have owned different colored bikes, hell even the suzuki owners are complaining!!

[snowdog]

haha you wanna explain how it goes hand in hand? Ignition systems are basically completely isolated from the efi.......Other than they are controlled in the same ecm

MMM HUUUA WWWHAT

[smr96]

I remember when Suzuki wanted to be first dealing with the twin cylinder Ducatis in superbike. The TL1000r wasn't too succesful. Then Honda released the RC51 and were competetive from the get go. Even won a championship with it.

[Trick188]

I remember when Suzuki wanted to be first dealing with the twin cylinder Ducatis in superbike. The TL1000r wasn't too succesful. Then Honda released the RC51 and were competetive from the get go. Even won a championship with it.

maybe so but owners of the TL actually enjoyed there bikes- have you ridden an RC51?

or maybe try a comparison mor relevant- like when honda released the "sport quad" trx400ex then suzuki came out with the faster, better handling, better suspended LTZ400 then honda released the TRX450R then suzuki came out with the more race ready (and efi) LTR450. And if I recall suzuki won championships with both those bikes while honda struggled.

[Trick188]

MMM HUUUA WWWHAT

speak english?

[zig06]

maybe so but owners of the TL actually enjoyed there bikes- have you ridden an RC51?

or maybe try a comparison mor relevant- like when honda released the "sport quad" trx400ex then suzuki came out with the faster, better handling, better suspended LTZ400 then honda released the TRX450R then suzuki came out with the more race ready (and efi) LTR450. And if I recall suzuki won championships with both those bikes while honda struggled.

Excellent point!

And how many times has Suzuki won the Superbike championship now? I seem to think it's something like 7 out of the past 8 years. And that's including every race last year. Even though factory teams from Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and even Ducati were there.

The key here is that Suzuki wins when you are required to use a bike based on a production bike. And that shows that they are giving you a bike that's fully capable to win with the right adjustments and the right rider.

.

[oldracer65]

and lets not forget about drag racing honda cant get out of its own way

[HollywoodMX]

Well it seems from several magazine reviews that honda and kawa are the top 450 4 strokes while the ktms are last, and the yammi's in the middle and the suzukis are......mia, due due failures.

I dont even own a honda or a kawa.

[CrusRuss]

If you have followed bikes for the last 5-10 years even you will realise that magazine shootouts, whilst fun to read, are totally bogus as a decision making tool for what bike to ride. You need to research further than that, these guys just go out there and fang around on different bikes for 5 hours and then are expected to try to find differences between them.

You will find the bike thats right for you only after testing them yourselves and talking to actual owners of different bikes.

[blue66tang]

Im not sure who it was, but somebody mentioned that timing has nothing to do with efi? It has everything to do with efi. You need to do a little research on how EFI actually works. Sure this particular suzuki is not a closed loop system, so basically the computer sets how much fuel its going to give it, and thats it. But... since it has set amount of fuel. The timing needs to be set where it will use the greatest % of that fuel. If you give it a ton of fuel, but then your timing it retarded to much, its ganna be leaving lots of unburned fuel and a poor running bike. Like somebody said, its no different than tuning a car, fuel and spark need to be set to work with each other. Thats in a open loop system. Now look at a closed loop system, like any modern efi car, or the new 08 Suzuki Busa. The computer sits there and constantly is changing the timing and fuel curve, because it is reading the exhaust. If the exhaust is saying its running lean, maybe it will retard the timing a little or give it a little more fuel. If its running rich, it may give it a little more timing so it has more time to burn that unburnt fuel, or maybe it will simply lean it out a little. Heck most new cars now have knock sensors, so if it registers even the slightest ping (sometimes from being lean) it will retard the timing. So back to who ever said this " timing and efi go hand in hand" .\

Oh and by the way, suzuki will get it under controll. Suzuki makes excellent efi systems (go check out their supersport bikes) and this is just a minor hickup. They are the first out the gate to get efi going, so my guess they will a head of the pack when every body else gets going on their EFI systems. Im not a suzuki rider, but I give them a round of applause for being bold. First year bikes always have issues.

[HollywoodMX]

If you have followed bikes for the last 5-10 years even you will realise that magazine shootouts, whilst fun to read, are totally bogus as a decision making tool for what bike to ride. You need to research further than that, these guys just go out there and fang around on different bikes for 5 hours and then are expected to try to find differences between them.

You will find the bike thats right for you only after testing them yourselves and talking to actual owners of different bikes.

That's fair. I was definately curious to see what the new bike had to offer vs the carb bikes. It would have been cool to see the comparion of all of them together.

Im not sure who it was, but somebody mentioned that timing has nothing to do with efi? It has everything to do with efi. You need to do a little research on how EFI actually works. Sure this particular suzuki is not a closed loop system, so basically the computer sets how much fuel its going to give it, and thats it. But... since it has set amount of fuel. The timing needs to be set where it will use the greatest % of that fuel. If you give it a ton of fuel, but then your timing it retarded to much, its ganna be leaving lots of unburned fuel and a poor running bike. Like somebody said, its no different than tuning a car, fuel and spark need to be set to work with each other. Thats in a open loop system. Now look at a closed loop system, like any modern efi car, or the new 08 Suzuki Busa. The computer sits there and constantly is changing the timing and fuel curve, because it is reading the exhaust. If the exhaust is saying its running lean, maybe it will retard the timing a little or give it a little more fuel. If its running rich, it may give it a little more timing so it has more time to burn that unburnt fuel, or maybe it will simply lean it out a little. Heck most new cars now have knock sensors, so if it registers even the slightest ping (sometimes from being lean) it will retard the timing. So back to who ever said this " timing and efi go hand in hand" .\

Oh and by the way, suzuki will get it under controll. Suzuki makes excellent efi systems (go check out their supersport bikes) and this is just a minor hickup. They are the first out the gate to get efi going, so my guess they will a head of the pack when every body else gets going on their EFI systems. Im not a suzuki rider, but I give them a round of applause for being bold. First year bikes always have issues.

That was trick188, who appearently knows nothing about ECU tuning.

What will be interesting is if the new ecu's will be hackable and reprogramable through new program software, or we will be seeing chipped ecu solutions to tune the bike, or interuptors similair the SAFC that will trick the computer with how much air is going in to add more fuel.

[torrmentor]

Has anyone read the Dirt Bike 450 test yet? I think it's odd when both mags come from High-Torque Publishing, and have such different results & takes on the bikes. DB spends most of the feeble issue discussing the RM-Z, EDI, closed-loop v. open loop, etc. They claim no problems, and DON'T rank the RM-Z last. Weird. They do suggest if the bikes starter gear does jam, just put it in gear & rock the bike and try again. That's great, lets just ignore the root of a potential problem.....

[railer80]

I read the 250f test and they said that the KTM was their favorite in almost every category except suspension. yet it got last? somethings fishy about these tests, i smell some green incentives...

[Trick188]

Im not sure who it was, but somebody mentioned that timing has nothing to do with efi? It has everything to do with efi. You need to do a little research on how EFI actually works. Sure this particular suzuki is not a closed loop system, so basically the computer sets how much fuel its going to give it, and thats it. But... since it has set amount of fuel. The timing needs to be set where it will use the greatest % of that fuel. If you give it a ton of fuel, but then your timing it retarded to much, its ganna be leaving lots of unburned fuel and a poor running bike. Like somebody said, its no different than tuning a car, fuel and spark need to be set to work with each other. Thats in a open loop system. Now look at a closed loop system, like any modern efi car, or the new 08 Suzuki Busa. The computer sits there and constantly is changing the timing and fuel curve, because it is reading the exhaust. If the exhaust is saying its running lean, maybe it will retard the timing a little or give it a little more fuel. If its running rich, it may give it a little more timing so it has more time to burn that unburnt fuel, or maybe it will simply lean it out a little. Heck most new cars now have knock sensors, so if it registers even the slightest ping (sometimes from being lean) it will retard the timing. So back to who ever said this " timing and efi go hand in hand" .\

Oh and by the way, suzuki will get it under controll. Suzuki makes excellent efi systems (go check out their supersport bikes) and this is just a minor hickup. They are the first out the gate to get efi going, so my guess they will a head of the pack when every body else gets going on their EFI systems. Im not a suzuki rider, but I give them a round of applause for being bold. First year bikes always have issues.

haha nice try but the efi on most off-road bikes and atv's dont change the ignition timing due to readings of the o2 (when equipped) they just compensate by changing the injector duration as needed. The ignition timing is set to certain degree BTDC which obviously advances as rpms increase to compensate for burn time. It is not effected by the fuel injection anymore than if it were carburated. Obviously the timing is set to best work with the engine, thats a given but to say a problem with the ignition timing is because of the efi is pretty far fetched.

[brooko]

I dont think people should be bagging out the yellow beast yet before they have been really proven and tested by the masses. I also think some of the mags shootouts are dodgy ! They always pick a honda, yet anyone with one who rides my green beast reckons it has way more power and handles great. Suzuki will sort out there bugs and they will end up being a great bike....good on them for being first and forward thinking in efi:ride:

[delmas]

I agree about the step on the efi but they should have taken more time before they went public with it.I am a Suzuki man all the way but they did botch this one . The poor launching of this bike will set back the overall acceptance of the Suzuki EFI and there really should not have been a rush since no one else has put one out yet.This will give all the shootout GODS

more reason to dog Suzuki.Also this has to hurt them financialy.Who really

will want to take a chance on this 2008 EFI at a late date.They should have done more testing and relased it for 2009.credit is due for not dumping the bike on the public.

[Learn2turn]

To a degree, it's easier to turbocharge.

[M_Xrider]

MXA are a bunch of tards sorry to say lets all wait untill dirtbike magazine come out with the 450 shootout for this year.And if I am right mike allessi is riding the rmz450 this year.

[Mr_Hanky]

I dont understand why all you people are bashin on the Rmz 450 2008 already because no one really has one yet, you are only making bold predictions and many of you doesnt even seem to understand what EFI really is about. Yeah many of us who are waiting for one is bummed because the bike is so late, but i rather have a finished bike that have the bugs worked out instead of realising a bike that arent finished (kxf/rmz 2004, crf 450 2002). And still the Rmz is atleast 7 months earlier than any other bike with EFI. Also i don't understand what so many people who belongs to the CRF 450, KX 450F and YZ 450F forum are here doing nothing but bashing on the Rmz 450 wich none of them have never seen in real life let alone tested one.

[bedell99]

MXA are a bunch of tards sorry to say lets all wait untill dirtbike magazine come out with the 450 shootout for this year.And if I am right mike allessi is riding the rmz450 this year.

You realized Dirtbike and MXA are owned by the same publisher right.

Erik