If you do not understand why REED = 6th

Supercross

if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how REED got a 6th place finish,then you DO NOT KNOW much about racing at all.

I agree that Reed should have taken it a little easier on the bike,and KW won,but,for instance, Windham did not exactly REenter the track at the same spot when he pulled off for a goggle change (but,again THAT IS NOT THE RULE anyway)

glenn

if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how REED got a 6th place finish,then you DO NOT KNOW much about racing at all.

I agree that Reed should have taken it a little easier on the bike,and KW won,but,for instance, Windham did not exactly REenter the track at the same spot when he pulled off for a goggle change (but,again THAT IS NOT THE RULE anyway)

glenn

Are you going to explain it?

if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how REED got a 6th place finish,then you DO NOT KNOW much about racing at all.

I agree that Reed should have taken it a little easier on the bike,and KW won,but,for instance, Windham did not exactly REenter the track at the same spot when he pulled off for a goggle change (but,again THAT IS NOT THE RULE anyway)

glenn

What brought this on? Is this a rant from another thread? :thumbsup:

not a rant but lots of guys are saying he should be DNF instead of 6th place at last nights race. sorry

glenn

Apples and oranges, Windham entered and exited the pits as provided by the officials. Chad crashed and did not reenter the track at the next safest spot, he gassed it to the next turn.

I could care less one way or the other, but your scenario not even close to being the same. Since when have the rules changed that say you reenter at the next turn? You'll have to show that one to me to believe what Chad did wasn't legal.

they just feel that reed isint far enough ahead with points..what the heck why dont we throw another couple points at him...

wish i saw the race... i heard it was muddy as hell. hope its on speed again.

not a rant but lots of guys are saying he should be DNF instead of 6th place at last nights race. sorry

glenn

Like stated earlier, can you explain why he got sixth? I'm not arguing, just don't under stand why (thread title suggest that you were going to explain).

Basically there were only 4 riders on the same lap as KW when KW passed the finish line. Once those four other riders made it over the finish line to complete their 20th lap, the rest of the riders had only completed 19 laps on the same lap as the 5 finished their 20, but Chad had already completed 19 laps before the rest of the field and would therefore be 6th. Basically positions 7 on up only completed 19 laps after KW went over the finish line, Reed finished 19 laps before KW went over the finish line.

yes,but this particular race was shortened to 12 laps ,due to extreme conditions!!!

glenn

yes,but this particular race was shortened to 12 laps ,due to extreme conditions!!!

glenn

Just subtract 8 from his explanation, and it fits.

I'm still looking for a ruling on Reed. It's clear that he did not re-enter the track at the next safest point. Matter of fact, he almost cut KW off just to maintain his orginal posistion.

Because he finished at least 50% of the race, and completed the 11th lap before the other 14 riders behind him. As far as where he re-entered the track, looked a bit fishy to me, but that's at the discretion of the AMA judges.

I'm a bit curious about this off and on the track thing. I guess the rule says that a racer is to reenter the track at the safest oppurtunity and can not gain postion as a result. What was bothering me more than the back onto the track thing with KW was that several times prior to that CR went off the track and the line he took off the track appeared to be alot faster than on the track given the condition of the track.

"... prior to that CR went off the track and the line he took off the track appeared to be alot faster than on the track given the condition of the track."

I noticed that too. But in all fairness, Im sure other riders had situations like that. Speed only shows one angle at a time. :thumbsup:

From the 2008 AMA Supercross / Motocross rules:

h. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage. It will be the duty of the Race Manager or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the race course and re-entering.

i. A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

AND

A2.3 The following offenses will be subject to disciplinary action by the Race Manager and/or AMA Racing. This list is provided as guidance to licensed competitors and event credential holders but does not restrict AMA Racing from invoking penalties for other actions detrimental to the sport which are not specifically contemplated herein.

l. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

Coverage of the race clearly shows Windham passing Reed. However, Windham was no longer in front of Reed when he re-entered the track. In addition, there were several "close, practical points" at which he could have safely re-entered the track prior to the apex of the turn.

The AMA web site shows Reed finished 7th. (Behind Kevin Windham, Davi Millsaps, Jacob Marsack, David Vuillemin, Antonio Balbi, and Heath D. Voss)

From the 2008 AMA Supercross / Motocross rules:

Coverage of the race clearly shows Windham passing Reed. However, Windham was no longer in front of Reed when he re-entered the track. In addition, there were several "close, practical points" at which he could have safely re-entered the track prior to the apex of the turn.

IMO, Reed clearly didn't safely re-enter the track, he gassed it and entered the track basically right beside Windham at race speed, that's not safely or behind Windham. I would like to see another angle though.

Because he finished at least 50% of the race, and completed the 11th lap before the other 14 riders behind him. As far as where he re-entered the track, looked a bit fishy to me, but that's at the discretion of the AMA judges.

Let me clairify. '...completed the 11th lap before the other 14 riders behind him, that only finished 11 laps.' Or 13 riders if he indeed finished 7th.

CR never crossed the finish line, everyone else did - lap down or not. Should CR have a DNF? He never finished the race.

Order of the riders crossing the finish line on their 12th Lap:

Kevin Windham

Davi Millsaps

Jacob Marsack

David Vuillemin

Antonio Balbi

(No other riders completed 12 laps.)

Order of the riders crossing the finish line on their 11th Lap:

Heath D. Voss (Voss "finished" ahead of Reed only because Reed was penalized 3 minutes and 30 seconds for cutting the track out of bounds.)

Chad Reed (This is the odd one, in that he is the only one in this group that didn't receive the checkered flag on the completion of his 11th lap since he was leading the race at that point and the checkered flag had not come out, yet.)

Andrew Short

Eric Sorby

etc.

What was bothering me more than the back onto the track thing with KW was that several times prior to that CR went off the track and the line he took off the track appeared to be alot faster than on the track given the condition of the track.

Ya, I know the track was probably one of the worst in Supercross history, but I was screaming "what the heck!" everytime Reed did that^^^. I'm generally a fan of Reed's, but now I'm not so sure anymore. I'd like to hear an explaination from him that makes sense. I don't like cheaters.

From the AMA pro rulebook:

3.27 Race Finishes

a.

Races are officially ended for all contestants at the completion of the lap in which the checkered flag is displayed to the winner.

b.

To be considered as having completed a lap, the rider and his motorcycle must cross the plane of the checkered flag.

c.

Riders will be credited with all laps they complete during a race unless a penalty has been assessed.

d.

Riders choosing to leave a race before its completion need not wait for the checkered flag to receive credit for laps they have completed.

e.

Should the checkered flag be displayed later than the official distance, the finishing order will be decided on the basis of the official distance.

f.

A motorcycle that enters the paddock during a race will not be permitted to return to the race track.

g.

Under any other circumstances, the winner is the leader at the time the checkered flag is displayed.

h.

Should a rider be given the checkered flag ahead of the actual winner, or with the winners, the rider will be scored as having completed the race in the race position the rider was running at that time.

i.

A video camera may be used at the finish line to aid the scorekeepers in determining the finishing order of a close race. Should video footage from an AMA designated camera be unavailable or inconclusive for any reason, the scoring of the finish will be based solely on the scorekeepers' decision.

j.

Any riders who do not complete the checkered flag lap will be scored in order of finish and laps completed.

k.

A rider whose motorcycle is disabled before reaching the finish line may, by the rider's own unaided muscular energy, push or carry the motorcycle in the proper direction of the track to complete the race by crossing the finish line, unless the rider is determined to be a hazard by the Race Manager.

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