Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Anyone thinking of going back to a 4 ???

Recommended Posts

Sounds like maybe you're not comfortable using the clutch alot. Try a 300 next time. The 300 requires less clutch work than the other 2Ts.

After that, try a 500 2T. You don't ever NEED the clutch, but when you fan it a little, with your buddy behind you on his 450.........and shred him with foknoid......uhm...what more can I say:busted:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My WR was great to get started on. It stopped scaring me. Got a smoker and got scared again, I think it is a good thing to have a respecting fear of your bike. My huge smile has returned, I don't remember loosing it on my wr, but I did. It is all about the smile (and the smell)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Be honest now though, out in the desert, do the 2st hook up as well........ If your honest, the answer will be no. I hate to say it, but it's true and why that is is beyond me as I'm no engineer. So out there in the des where we ride 4 months of the year, the 4t is the best ticket. Not to say the 2st does not work good because it does, just not as. I've not experienced my 300 in the tight hills yet, so I can't say how that will be, but if I find it lacking, I may go back. I will say, it's nice having something that's easy to work on, that's really kewl.

I really like Mikes300's idea, I'd love to have both, but my pockets is empty enough......

Ya know, I had a plan to keep my crf450 for the dez and the 2t for the ST because of the same perception of the desert riding as you.

I was wrong...and I just sold my 450. I'm faster EVERYWHERE on the 2t including the desert. Sand washes? No problem if I'm pinning it, I just tap over the tops of the washes. Now, when I get tired and get lazy (and I'm plodding through the sand), I miss the 4t but my goal is to get to a point where that's not a factor (so far about the 40-50 mile mark).

The only area where the 4t has a clear advantage is on long, loose, clumsy hills...especially the ones where irregular whoops at the base make entry speed tough to maintain. The 2t needs momentum more than the 4t.

So, I think that if you're a lazy or passive rider, the 4t is the way to go in the desert (not you, btw, but in general). If you ride all out, 2t all the way. Of course, the challenge is how long can you ride "all out"? I'm still working on that:busted:

BTW, I'm not saying that if a person rides a 4t, you're lazy or passive...just saying that if that's your style, then a 4t is a better fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My WR was great to get started on. It stopped scaring me. Got a smoker and got scared again, I think it is a good thing to have a respecting fear of your bike. My huge smile has returned, I don't remember loosing it on my wr, but I did. It is all about the smile (and the smell)

Glad you found your way home:thumbsup:

If you have never looked at twostokemilitia.jfn3.com go have a look. Word is some interesting tech articles will start being posted.

bbm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Got both. Hour meters say it all.

07 525 EXC, set up with lots of bling & performance items with TrailTricks suspension - 21.7 hours

08 250 XCWe, also set up nicely with TrailTricks boingers - 49.8 hours

Smoke 'em if ya' got 'em ...

That's me except my 2T is a 07200XC. Way faster on the 2T in the woods. Less fatigue after a race and the maint, what maint? changing oil and a airfilter is all I needed to do after Sandy Lane last weekend. Okay I washed it too.............Now I am ready for Curly Fern Enduro in a week.

My 07 525 is great for the DS rides, but that's it. The only other time I ride it is my last ride before a race. Then when I jump on the 200 it feels like a BMX bike after the 4T. I mostly ride the 2T and will never race my 525 again as long as I have a plated 2T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great thread but you got to remeber what forum this is in. KTM 2 STROKE. so i think this might be leaning towards one way. i own a 2t and love it so i don't want any one to thing i'm a pre-mix hater. all i'm saying is if this thread was in a 4t forum the answers may have been different.

i'm still trying to make up my mind if my next bike is going to be 250xc or a crf450r. going to be moving back to CA and i ride pretty much every type of terrain. from tracks, trails, desert and sand dunes so trying to find the right bike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
great thread but you got to remeber what forum this is in. KTM 2 STROKE. so i think this might be leaning towards one way. i own a 2t and love it so i don't want any one to thing i'm a pre-mix hater. all i'm saying is if this thread was in a 4t forum the answers may have been different.

i'm still trying to make up my mind if my next bike is going to be 250xc or a crf450r. going to be moving back to CA and i ride pretty much every type of terrain. from tracks, trails, desert and sand dunes so trying to find the right bike.

True, but look up something like KTM two stroke in the yamaha WR(4t) forums. Those guys have alot of respect for the KTM smokers. I love the feel of my KTM over the yami, I just have to get use to starting it. I guess on the KTM I must not open the throttle, on my WR I had to work the a/p four to five times and hold the throttle 1/2 way open. BAD habbits die hard, after having to change the plug four or five times I hope I have learned my lesson(this is only with a cold motor, hope its normal). I cant believe how much funner this bike is, and for me fun is what is all about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
all i'm saying is if this thread was in a 4t forum the answers may have been different.

.

Okay...but a thread titled, "Anyone thinking of going back to a 4(t)?" wouldn't make much sense in a 4t forum.:confused::excuseme:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
great thread but you got to remeber what forum this is in. KTM 2 STROKE. so i think this might be leaning towards one way. i own a 2t and love it so i don't want any one to thing i'm a pre-mix hater. all i'm saying is if this thread was in a 4t forum the answers may have been different.

Not if they are honest.:confused::excuseme: :excuseme:

There are very few people who try 2T that don't fall in love. The big three always rule--

1.Less cost (initial and ownership)

2.Less Weight (obvious)

3.Less Maint (feeds into cost some but your time and needed expertise are lesser too for keeping the bike at racing level)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay...but a thread titled, "Anyone thinking of going back to a 4(t)?" wouldn't make much sense in a 4t forum.:confused::excuseme:

True, but if you asked "Anyone who switched from a smoker to thumper?" I bet you'd have a bunch of people claiming the weight isn't a big deal, valves aren't so bad, and rebuilds don't cost THAT much. :excuseme:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
True, but if you asked "Anyone who switched from a smoker to thumper?" I bet you'd have a bunch of people claiming the weight isn't a big deal, valves aren't so bad, and rebuilds don't cost THAT much. :excuseme:

I went from smokers to a thumper and then back to smokers. Four strokes suck for me. I did all of the engine work myself on mine and it still cost $500 to rebuild. They are too expensive and too delicate to maintain at a race level for me to own. Two strokes are bullet proof compared to them and are much simpler and cheaper to maintain and repair. The weight isn't that big a deal to me on 4Ts, but valves suck, rebuilds cost alot more and the engines peter out too early. If money was no object and time wasn't a concern, I would probably ride a thumper again. But I can barely support my dirtbike habits as it is and I don't want to waste the little time I have for riding working on my engine. I love how I can beat my bike like I hate it, wash it and clean the air filter and beat it some more. I never worry about if I'm hurting the engine. I only change my oil every 12 hours and I could go much, much more than that. I usually can get two rides out of an air filter change unless it's dusty out. Wouldn't dream of doing that on a 4t! My experience with my thumper was if you ride on the rev limiter, you're not going to get any more than 65 hours out of your valves. That's not going to cut it for me........Smokers forever, thumpers never! :confused:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I went from smokers to a thumper and then back to smokers. Four strokes suck for me. I did all of the engine work myself on mine and it still cost $500 to rebuild. They are too expensive and too delicate to maintain at a race level for me to own. Two strokes are bullet proof compared to them and are much simpler and cheaper to maintain and repair. The weight isn't that big a deal to me on 4Ts, but valves suck, rebuilds cost alot more and the engines peter out too early. If money was no object and time wasn't a concern, I would probably ride a thumper again. But I can barely support my dirtbike habits as it is and I don't want to waste the little time I have for riding working on my engine. I love how I can beat my bike like I hate it, wash it and clean the air filter and beat it some more. I never worry about if I'm hurting the engine. I only change my oil every 12 hours and I could go much, much more than that. I usually can get two rides out of an air filter change unless it's dusty out. Wouldn't dream of doing that on a 4t! My experience with my thumper was if you ride on the rev limiter, you're not going to get any more than 65 hours out of your valves. That's not going to cut it for me........Smokers forever, thumpers never! :sweden:

:confused::excuseme: :excuseme:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever I am thinking of drinking the Kool aid, I watch this over and over. Sometimes I watch it and listen to the sound of a 125 pinned just to get in a better mood. I can smell the premix. You either get it or you don't.

Enjoy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i went back to a 2stroke last august. at first i thought i made a mistake but after months of staying at it i learned to ride it well. once i gained my confidence on it i thought i would stay with it since it was simple, cheap, and cool! however it was allways in the back of my head that maybe i was faster on my 4 stroke. so i decided to see with some testing.

i laid out a loop that was about one mile in length. the course had a steep downhill, a steep winding uphill, several tight tree sections, one hairpin 180 degree turn(that almost required you to stop), a tight tree section that lead to an uphill that was wide open, that lead into a stepup thru tight trees. pretty much everything that you would encounter on a hare scramble course.

i did 2 laps on the 300xc and got a time of 2:57. i then did the same test on a 450xcfw and got a time of 2:52...5 seconds faster:eek: i then got back on the 300xc and did it again and didnt hold anything back. got a time of 2:45. jumped back on the 450xcfw and got a time of 2:44 (and made 2 small mistakes during the test):confused:

i could not believe it...the 4 stroke took me less effort to run hard and had a more stable feel. i plan on doing more test this week before the gncc. i am going to do a 15 minute test on a bigger loop and a 30 minute test on a 5.5 mile loop. i cant argue with the times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i went back to a 2stroke last august. at first i thought i made a mistake but after months of staying at it i learned to ride it well. once i gained my confidence on it i thought i would stay with it since it was simple, cheap, and cool! however it was allways in the back of my head that maybe i was faster on my 4 stroke. so i decided to see with some testing.

i laid out a loop that was about one mile in length. the course had a steep downhill, a steep winding uphill, several tight tree sections, one hairpin 180 degree turn(that almost required you to stop), a tight tree section that lead to an uphill that was wide open, that lead into a stepup thru tight trees. pretty much everything that you would encounter on a hare scramble course.

i did 2 laps on the 300xc and got a time of 2:57. i then did the same test on a 450xcfw and got a time of 2:52...5 seconds faster:eek: i then got back on the 300xc and did it again and didnt hold anything back. got a time of 2:45. jumped back on the 450xcfw and got a time of 2:44 (and made 2 small mistakes during the test):confused:

i could not believe it...the 4 stroke took me less effort to run hard and had a more stable feel. i plan on doing more test this week before the gncc. i am going to do a 15 minute test on a bigger loop and a 30 minute test on a 5.5 mile loop. i cant argue with the times.

Well I don't know if your test really proves anything for me. This is why. I can race 5 laps of a hare scramble and my fastest lap is usually the third or fourth lap. None of the laps are really close to each other, but I'm on the same bike the entire time. I think to be more accurate you would have to run about 5 timed laps on one bike. Cool down, take a break then 5 timed laps on the other bike. Even then, I think the second series would be quicker because you memorized the lines. So to equal it out, I would wait for a day with different conditions and do the same test with the oppisite bike first. Not only would it be a fair test, but it would also see which bike is best for all conditions IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fletchman i would agree with you to a point , but i ride these trails ALOT and have the lines memorized allready.

i did another test today on a 2 mile loop that was alot wider and faster. the 4st was 1 second faster after approximately 8 minutes. but on the second set of tests the battery died on the 450xcfw which put me out of buisness:thumbsdn: we charged it up for a few hours and it fired up in 2nd gear with no worries. more to come in the future.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i went back to a 2stroke last august. at first i thought i made a mistake but after months of staying at it i learned to ride it well. once i gained my confidence on it i thought i would stay with it since it was simple, cheap, and cool! however it was allways in the back of my head that maybe i was faster on my 4 stroke. so i decided to see with some testing.

i laid out a loop that was about one mile in length. the course had a steep downhill, a steep winding uphill, several tight tree sections, one hairpin 180 degree turn(that almost required you to stop), a tight tree section that lead to an uphill that was wide open, that lead into a stepup thru tight trees. pretty much everything that you would encounter on a hare scramble course.

i did 2 laps on the 300xc and got a time of 2:57. i then did the same test on a 450xcfw and got a time of 2:52...5 seconds faster:eek: i then got back on the 300xc and did it again and didnt hold anything back. got a time of 2:45. jumped back on the 450xcfw and got a time of 2:44 (and made 2 small mistakes during the test):confused:

i could not believe it...the 4 stroke took me less effort to run hard and had a more stable feel. i plan on doing more test this week before the gncc. i am going to do a 15 minute test on a bigger loop and a 30 minute test on a 5.5 mile loop. i cant argue with the times.

There is a scientific method to testing. You need to do longer sessions and AVERAGE the laps. Do atleast 3 sesions on each bike. Then, another day, do the same thing but ride the bikes in the opposite order. And then you need to factor in weather, how much sleep you had the night before and a bunch of other variables. And someone other than you should run the stop watch. Also, you can't "calculate" time lost for "errors", wether they are yours or the bikes fault. They still occur. When evaluating times, make note of which bike you make the most mistakes on, how far into the test you were, and which sequence of the test you were doing. Just my very humble .02, after watching very competent people make horrible tuning decisions, by lack of repeatable data, and skewing results. Please, keep us posted on the tests and methods you use.

bbm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i went back to a 2stroke last august. at first i thought i made a mistake but after months of staying at it i learned to ride it well. once i gained my confidence on it i thought i would stay with it since it was simple, cheap, and cool! however it was allways in the back of my head that maybe i was faster on my 4 stroke. so i decided to see with some testing.

i laid out a loop that was about one mile in length. the course had a steep downhill, a steep winding uphill, several tight tree sections, one hairpin 180 degree turn(that almost required you to stop), a tight tree section that lead to an uphill that was wide open, that lead into a stepup thru tight trees. pretty much everything that you would encounter on a hare scramble course.

i did 2 laps on the 300xc and got a time of 2:57. i then did the same test on a 450xcfw and got a time of 2:52...5 seconds faster:eek: i then got back on the 300xc and did it again and didnt hold anything back. got a time of 2:45. jumped back on the 450xcfw and got a time of 2:44 (and made 2 small mistakes during the test):confused:

i could not believe it...the 4 stroke took me less effort to run hard and had a more stable feel. i plan on doing more test this week before the gncc. i am going to do a 15 minute test on a bigger loop and a 30 minute test on a 5.5 mile loop. i cant argue with the times.

Great write up and effort with your tests. I don't argue the times as I have heard that story many times over (about people thinking they are faster on a 2t but the times proving otherwise). But the comment about the 4t "taking less effort and having a more stable feel to it" is purely subjective, not fact (like the times). My 2t takes MUCH less effort than my 4t, allows me to ride much longer before fatigue sets in, and, consequently, would make my "later" laps faster just from the energy conservation. Lighter, no gyro effect, and easier to pick when I crash all equals faster and longer riding for me on the 2t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×