Link to the main post
Less Sound = More Ground
Oh no, here we go again! Gentlemen choose your weapons....
This is one topic that just won't die, really the Pandora's box of the dirt bike world.
p.s. - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Peace Eh - P.Z.
Read the article first then argue the point
I fail to see your point load pipes saves lives,
How does that apply in the woods?
or is it that the bear your running up on, will hear you and pull over?
Pete I dont mean this directed towards you , but that argument, noise saves lives is based on ignorance to the facts and ignorance to the reality we face as a community of riders, street or dirt
In fact here is the link to the article
Less Sound = More Ground from Bill Dart Blue Ribbon Mag
Hey - don't get too serious on me now! The "loud pipes" slogan makes just as much sense to me as "helmet laws suck" and other such nonsense. I just threw it in there to get some kind of a reaction. For the record, all my bikes are fitted with pipes that make them substantially louder than stock, but I do have the ability to put my dirt bike back to quiet mode, if the situation warrants it. It just kinda sucks to take a good-running, albiet a little loud motor cycle, and choke it up to appease the forest fairys. Not that having a quiet bike makes me any better of a citizen in thier eyes anyways. No matter what they are right, and I'm just a hooligan criminal intent on destroying the planet. Noise is not such an issue in my neck of the woods anyways, so I don't really sweat it.
Peace Eh - P.Z.
We have had a 96db @ 3500rpm limit for as long as i can remember, wilst i think less sound is more plesurabe not only for other forest users but for the bike user aswell, specially at high altitude when your ears start going mental, i guess it can probably be dangerous aswell, for example, a couple of weekends ago, i had to put my stock muffler back on for one ride because i broke my afetrmarket job, the stock muffler is rated at 92db, this particular weekend i hit a wallaby at about 70 ks, needless to say much pain for myself and probably the wallaby, the point i'm trying to get at is this, would the wallaby have heard me coming much earlier with a slightly louder pipe, taken off and we'd both be feeling ok?? or am i just looking for an excuse for bad luck??
Loud pipes dont = more power
The technology is there problem is oem's do not want to spend the bucks becouse it takes from profit....
CRD has the quite pipe that meets regulation
FMF Q series also
Read the article
Four weeks ago a buddy and I were cruising along some nice single track that is shared with bikes, hikers and horses. It happened to be the first week or two of the hunt and we came up on three hunters on horses going the same direction. We immediately shut our bikes off from about 50 yards back but ended up spooking the last horse. It bucked the guy off and tumbled 40 feet down the side of the hill. The horse was not hurt but rolled over the hunter, breaking his ankle. Needless to say I thought they were going to shoot us right there on the trail! We were as courteous as we could be (by shutting off our bikes immediately) but the noise from our bikes coming down the trail was enough to cause that mishap. I truely believe a quieter exhaust would have helped the situation greatly and maybe even prevented it from happening.
I am all for QUIETER exhausts. However, I haven't read or seen anything that is substantially quieter than the stock exhaust without the horsepower robbing feature of the stock plug. I have heard the Vortips reduce the noise substantially by pointing the noise down, but how much real noise reduction is there? I don't need an expensive aftermarket exhaust as the power with the stock exhaust is plenty for me. I would, however, purchase an exhaust that was VERY quiet and didn't rob all the horsepower like the stock plug.
I take it that was meant for Pete Z??
Blue Beast Wins,
I just wanted to share my experience on noise issues with everyone reading this post.
How to create confusion, ask blue beast, my post is for ego, i have a habit of looking at the top of each post to see who the comments are aimed at.
It was a necessary reaction to quiet the bikes down. Don't get too complacent though. The greens still haven't obtained their ultimate objective of totally banning every type of off-road activity. Until that happens they will chip away and chip away with demand after demand until they finally achieve their goal. Lets see. What's next? Oh yeah, knobby tires. We all need to start using more "environmentally friendly tires". Less knobby tires means more land for us to ride on. Sounds a little ridicules now but just wait. It will be something like that.
I don't buy it!!!!!!!!
This is a pipe dream!!! Come on, do you really think that "Less sound = More ground" ??? Will a closed riding area reopen because of a bike being 5 DB quiter?? Nope. Will we change someones mind because of this? Nope.
Don't get me wrong, we need to do what we can to keep the noise down. It's even more comfortable to ride this way for me. Guys that don't do maintaince on thier bikes and run 120 DB are the ones that hurt us.
But don't think for a minute that we will get "more ground" for our efforts, or it will keep a riding area open that is being attacked. The sound issue is not the main issue here. Mr Dart even eludes to that in his opening paragragh.
Lets work towards quiter bikes, with in reason, but realize the reality of it all.
BBW Yup meant to pete but not in a negative
You are correct, that is the premise of why I set the post, DIALOG. the issue is noise and the article stated that.
Question for responders:
DId you read the article before you commented?
I did not set the title I only copied what Bill Darts commentary was titled. And I don not believe the by line is = to getting back any ground lost. I believe if you READ THE ARTICLE, that it is meant entirely on getting the noise issue off the plate and from the eco nazis arsenal.
You are correct there are more responsible riders then non responsible, this is bad for us. But I think it this way
1: The industry must comply with Noise issues
2: Make pipes for both Race and Enthusiast that comply
3: Take action join groups like Blue Ribbon get involved
What I mean by Item 2 is simple Race Pipe Specs per what AMA endorses 98db
Enthusiast Pipes 96 and below. One thing the article stated was todays thumpers have more power then any of us will every use. Loosing a couple of HP to make it less noticeable in the woods is a good thing. Besides the technology is there and an OEM can build pipes that keep things quite and keep the same HP level.
Don't know if we are reading the same article or not, and yes I did read the one the link is too, have you seen that one??
While Mr Dart conciedes in that article (that I read) that the enviros are using the noise issue to a greater means, the removel of us from public lands, he also goes on to make some statements I believe to be false, as you did also.
The idea of these bikes having more power than any of us will use. Tell ya what, come to Colorado and I will take you to some 13000' passes and you can ride a bone stock bike or one that has a free flowing exhust system and then we will see if you want more power. I have ridden both and I notice a differnce as have many people. Sand conditions are another where horsepower rules.
But the main point is that to take the sound issue away from the greenies it will cost us all money to make our bikes perform and be quite. So we spend an extra $500 and what has changed, 4 - 10 DB. Do think the greenies won't complain about the noise still, not hardly.
While it is responsible for us as a community, the dirtbikers of the world, to do the things within reason to make the woods a "multi-user" place I think we need to stay within reason. So lets do what we can "reasonably" do to make our bikes quite but to think that this will keep riding areas open or quite the greenies is a pipe dream.
Unfortunately most of the folks with the really loud bikes aren't usually there to ride. They are the ones doing donuts around and around the staging area, rarely getting out of sight of their cars. They have the music blasting, beer cans all over the ground, bikes so ratty I wouldn't even have it in my storage let alone ride it!
Now all that in and of itself isn't so bad. But it shows that they aren't in it for a sport. They're like gadflys. The kind of guy that goes to a car race to see an accident or a Raiders game to start a fight. So when the riding area is shutdown, they just find someplace else to drink beer. Every place that has a problem it you see these jokers standing out like a sore thumb!
So inspect my bike, test the noise and smoke. But if you do then enforce it and toss out these losers!!!
I've said it before, just like Bill Dart says in his first paragraph, that noise issues are just surrogate issues being substituted for the real problem....they just want us out by any means necessary.
My problem is not with buying a $400 silencer that stifles my horsepower and empties my wallet. It's not the noise regulations by themselves (as I also said before, I will get a FMF Q series silencer). It is that we never get anything in return such as AN AGREEMENT THAT CANNOT BE LATER CHANGED TO FURTHER LOWER SOUND LEVELS TO A POINT THAT WE CANNOT OR WILL NOT COMPLY. AN AGREEMENT THAT FREEZES OTHER THINGS SUCH AS AVAILABLE ACREAGE. AN AGREEMENT THAT REQUIRES THAT THE GREENS WHO ARE DOING ALL THE COMPLAINING GET UP OFF THEIR LEAD @$$&$ AND PROACTIVELY DO AS MUCH FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AS OFF-ROAD CLUBS, HUNTERS, AND FISHERMEN DO. WE VOLUNTARILY CLEAN UP VAST STRETCHES OF DESERT, OUR GREEN STICKERS PAY FOR "TRAIL MAINTENANCE", OUR HUNTING LICENSES PAY MIGHTILY TOWARD HABITAT ENHANCEMENT, AND OUR FISHING LICENSES PAY THE SALARIES OF THE VERY RANGERS WHO ARE WRITING US TICKETS SO WE CAN PAY EVEN MORE INTO THIS CORRUPT INBRED SYSTEM.
We pay dearly for the greenies to be able to mouth off from the comfort of their living rooms and cell phones and computers and order around the people whose salaries WE pay.
The organizations that are on the front lines of this battle should now be on the OFFENSIVE. They need to start making some demands of their own instead of meekly sitting on their hands and choosing which demands we are going to give in to, and offering the same old defensive strategies that we have proven since the 70's DO NOT WORK!!!!!!!
Bill Dart is probably reading this post already. He and I don't agree on everything, but we are still on the same side of the fence, and we agree on far more than we disagree on. Bill is on the front lines, he needs your support, and he needs to hear from all of us. If you care about this sport, and don't already belong to one of the land use organizations, please DO SO NOW. It takes millions of dollars to fight legal challenges such as these, and they need the money.
And Bill, if you have ever listened to what your constituency is saying, please do so now. GO OFFENSIVE WITH THIS ISSUE AND WE WON'T HAVE TO CONTINUALLY GIVE UP SMALL BITES AT A TIME UNTIL THE WHOLE THING IS DOWN THE TUBES! If the greenies are the ones on the defensive, trust me, noise WILL NOT BE THE ISSUE!
Well put Dan!!! Merf is saying the same thing over in the YZ forum about getting involved. We all need to write letters, join the org's that support us and the such. The part I like most about your post is the going on the offense part. We are slowly loosing this war by being defensive. Have we ever demanded an area be clasified as open to off road forever? Thats what the greenies do on thier side.
I agree with Dan, the enviros will not stop untill we are abolished. The 1st noise limit in CA was 101 dBm. As of Jan. 1 2003 it will drop to 96 dBm. For you folks that don't realize every 3 dBm is 1/2 the power (i.e. sound). I have upgraded my Big Gun once & I'm in the process of doing it again. I have now bought a new end cap & insert, but the enviros will next demand 92 dBm. Hell if 96 was better for 2003, 92 DBm for 2004, 89dBm & knobbie less tires for 2005, we will never appease them...
#1 Join an organization (i.e. Blue Ribbon Coalition)
#2 write letters
I too agree with Dan's point. And for you guys who think (as I did) that it's only happening to the guys in "other states" you better think twice or it'll sneak up and bite us in the backside. I started checking up on NY/NJ and already found that there's conflicts. As with the ADK Club http://www.adk-nyc.org/News/Trouble.htm
OK so noise ordanances weren't mentioned in this link, but as stated before,their main goals are obvious and the sound this is just another chip taken out of the rock. I haven't found a noise ordance here in NY (yet) but I've found that once CA passes this type of thing others are soon to follow. I haven't exhaused my links for the northeast yet so I'll keep reading...In the mean time GET INVOLVED before we're forced into riding electric dirt bikes! (Now that would be a heavy bike).
I really believe that the noise issue is just a trick-f*** thrown at us by the greens. Just something to keep us occupied, something we can wring our hands over, another hoop to jump through, so to speak. Dan is right, they just want us (and ATV's and 4WD trucks) gone forever. Not for any really good reason either, they just despise us. Truly.
Is there even one un-biased independent study out there that proves off-road motorized recreation causes any measurable environmental impact? If some greenie's wet dream came true and magically there were no more off-roaders, does any one think for an instant that there would be any noticable improvement in the Earth's environment? Not a chance! If these bastards were ACTUALLY concerned about noise and emissions then why aren't they protesting en'masse at every major commercial airport in North America? I guess those whisper-quiet jumbo jets puking raw fuel and TONS of hydrocarbons daily into the upper atmosphere don't bother them so much. So you will have to excuse me if I don't think that anyone making thier bike quieter is even going to begin to make any kind of a difference.
Maybe I should just place my order now for those less-aggressive, earth-friendly, not-so-knobby tires. Sheesh!
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Already have an account? Sign in here.