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Countershaft Seal Replacement Without Splitting Cases

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ok im gonna replace the shift shaft seal and the CS seal on the kdx200 motor. i replaced the CS seal when i first got the bike and its leaking again, i think. 8 months later. so i guess i need the orings as well. that these, right

? (kdxgarage?)

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/39/Year/1998/ModelID/3726/Model/KDX200/GroupID/112397/Group/Transmission

o-rings: 92055-035

and do i need or should i get: 92143-1433

last time i had the seal out i remember that thing looked worn and i read somewhere its part of the seal? i think the o-rings seat there,and it was severly grooved. im gonna try and get the seals out tommorrow morning to refresh my meory. anyone got a favorite way of removing a seal w/o splitting cases?

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I had posted all the part numbers for someone, somewhere, but I can't find it.

Get the seal, collar, two o-rings, and a new circlip. Make sure you put the correct end into the seal. It's the non-flat end.

On teh seal, I had good luck with a cheap spring puller to pry around slowly until it started coming out. Just take your time and don't go for too much at once. Just keep working it aorund.

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I had posted all the part numbers for someone, somewhere, but I can't find it.

Get the seal, collar, two o-rings, and a new circlip. Make sure you put the correct end into the seal. It's the non-flat end.

On teh seal, I had good luck with a cheap spring puller to pry around slowly until it started coming out. Just take your time and don't go for too much at once. Just keep working it aorund.

cool thanks kdx

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ok well i finally got around to it and found this. no wonder i had a CS leak :thumbsup: they are very feelable with a nail, and its rough across the whole thing. i also turned it around when i last did the CS seal lees than 8 months ago, so the seal would ride on a diff section, but i just relized that one side has a big beveled relief on the inside, so its not reversable i guess. if yours looks like this, replace it!

kdxCSseal002.jpg

kdxCSseal007.jpg

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ok now this is turning into a how-to thread

here goes:

HOW TO CHANGE YOU KDX CS SEAL WITHOUT SPLITTING THE CASES!

before you start this, be sure you are able to finish it. once you start you cannot stop. the first time you try and pry that seal out you ruin it. if you cant finish the job, dont start it as you will have to slip the cases. last time i tried this it took me 2 hours, of :thumbsup: . i just looked at it tonight and thought for a minute about a solution and came up with this idea. as long as you can reproduce it, it takes about 3 minutes:thumbsup: i am not responsible for blah blah blah:blah:

first attempt, seal is ruined

kdxCSseal010.jpg

you will need:

-outside snap ring pliers

-long flatblade screw driver, relatively thin

-neddle nose pliers, relatively thin, or big channel locks will work if you dont plan on reusing your collar

-pick or small screw driver

-and of course the parts you need

these are the old parts and the tools you need. the spring shouldnt be out of the seal BTW

kdxCSseal019.jpg

-take off your chain

-remove the snapring with outside snapring pliers and pull off the sprocket

-with the small needle nose pliers remove the collar from the shaft (if you plan on reusing the collar wrap the pliers in electrical tape or something)

you then have this, a shaft with a nice gap between it and the seal,

kdxCSseal009.jpg

-get out the big screw driver and wedge it as shown. make sure you have the screw deiver on the inside of the seal and not the case. you will leave a nice scratch in the case when you take it out, if you dont make sure its right.

if you look closely at the pic you can see where the seal is bulging out from the screwdriver, look for that to make sure you have a good bight on the seal. the long screw driver is for the leverage, youll need it.

kdxCSseal012.jpg

kdxCSseal011.jpg

right before the screwdriver will brake it does this

kdxCSseal013.jpg

when i last installed my seal i didnt pound it all the way flush, just barely out. that way the screwdriver wasnt on the case. if yours is flush or recessed in the case, use something like a rag or a peice of hose to protect the case from the screwdriver

give it one last push and it flys off half way across the garage, no damage to the cases at all.

kdxCSseal015.jpg

get out the pick or small screwdriver and pull of the 2 o-rings that sit on the shaft

kdxCSseal017.jpg

kdxCSseal018.jpg

Notes: the collar, and the o-ring are good to replace and would be stupid (like me the 1rst time around) not to replace it with the seal for what it costs. i didnt think the snap ring was nessacary either, but now that i think about it, its the only thing holding the sprocket on :p aslo i did this with the motor out of the bike. when you have a screwdriver that long the bike may be ibn the way, the gas tank and shrouds will probably have to come off as well. if you hit something imovable, like the frame, then put something under the fulcrum of the screwdriver(where you are prying againt the case) to push it away from the bike.

oem parts list:

collar: 92143-1433 x1

seal: 92050-033 x1

o-rings: 92055-035 x2

snapring: 92055-035 x1

assembly tommorrow at 2 in the am

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Very nice Sean, these how to threads are kinda fun. You have done great.

Ed

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i cant edit the tittle. you used to be able to double click the tittle box to edit. anyone know how to edit a tittle?

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double click an inch over from the title text. I jsut tried it 2 seconds ago, still works.

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i must be retarted, ive edited tittles a million times, and now i cant do it.

i wish we had a mod. so we could sticky this... hint hint

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i figured it out, you can edit anything past a certain amount of time, i wish we had a moderator to help me edit that...

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reassembly

first, slide your 2 NEW o-rings on the cleaned counter shaft along with the gearbox oil of your choice

then get out your new seal, lube the seal lip with some lube of your choice.

then lightly tap ouround it to get it started like so

cssealassembly004.jpg

then find a socket that is as close to the outside diameter as possible with out going over. i fond that a 6point 30mm is perfect

cssealassembly003.jpg

use the socket and a hammer to drive the seal into place, make sure it goes in flush and even, if it is cocked at an angle, your seal will not seal or last very long. i find that if you use an extension, is goes in a little more even, since you are hitting the seal driver in the middle, so it wont go in crooked. pay close attanetion though, as if you get it in crooked, you will ruin it by thrying to fix it, you only have 1 chance

cssealassembly005.jpg

pound it in till it is flush with the case

cssealassembly006.jpg

then get your collar, again lube it with your lue of choice. take note of the recess on one side of the collar. taht is where the o-rings seat, it must face the engine when your installing it (the top part in the pic goes into the motor)

cssealassembly001.jpg

then you can slide on your sprocket. if it doesnt go on all the way, that means the collar didnt seat on the o-rings, just give it a little tapwith the hammer and socket. if it really fights you yhen you didnt lube it enough or you have another issue. then install your snap ring, chain, and go ride

should look like this when your done

cssealassembly.jpg

have fun.. please sticky me!!!!!!!!! when we get stickys... plz

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Looks good.

Two things I would mention are:

1) Vaseline works great as a seal/o-ring lube in and around transmissions.

2) I always apply a thin....very thin coating of RTV sillycone on the outside of any seal (unless the seal mfr. states otherwise). This will eliminate a leak between the case and seal housing. BT, DT.

cssealassembly003.jpg

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Looks good.

Two things I would mention are:

1) Vaseline works great as a seal/o-ring lube in and around transmissions.

2) I always apply a thin....very thin coating of RTV sillycone on the outside of any seal (unless the seal mfr. states otherwise). This will eliminate a leak between the case and seal housing. BT, DT.

cssealassembly003.jpg

i ussually do #2, but just forgot

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Excellent write up!!! Good job!! should be stickied

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Id be interested to see the seal itself I bet I have a garlock seal removal tool that would work instead of the screwdriver (I use them for removing seals on turbine engines) Could you measure the OD and ID of the seal(actually the OD/ID of the sleeve) if its not to much of a problem. I may also be able to make a self aligning seal installer if you give me the general OD of the CS. Just a thought Im kind of a tinkerer when it comes to making tools.

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well i wa going to measure it right now but i cant find my calipers. ill look harder tommorrow when its not 1 a.m.

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Id be interested to see the seal itself I bet I have a garlock seal removal tool that would work instead of the screwdriver (I use them for removing seals on turbine engines) Could you measure the OD and ID of the seal(actually the OD/ID of the sleeve) if its not to much of a problem. I may also be able to make a self aligning seal installer if you give me the general OD of the CS. Just a thought Im kind of a tinkerer when it comes to making tools.

That's a good idea, but the CS seal is not in need of replacing often enough to warrant a specific tool.

However, if you do make one, incorporate a shoulder so the seal is installed flush with the case.

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OD- 40mm

large ID- 38mm

small ID (metal lip)- 34.5mm

seal ID(rubber part)- 30mm

the seal is 5mm thick, makes sense since the major id and od are 10mm apart(think sidewall height of a tire) and 7mm deep(tread width)

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Thanks Im gonna do up something in CAD and see if I can machine one out of plastic or nylon rod.

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