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Convert cars to run on E85

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Is it possible to convert a vehicle to run on E85? My 03 F150 isn't capable of drinking corn.

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the ratio differs and the computotr needs to recognize this, the ratio for fuel is 14:1 and the ratio for alchol is 7:1 (you need to burn 2 xs as much alcohol as gas),, also the fuel system "O" rings, gaskets/seals/lines need to be alcohol acceptible or else they will delaminate.... and ethanol you lose about 30% effeciency so it better be about a buck and a half cheaper per gallon to make it worth while

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It would be too big of a money pit headache, different tanks, different lines, different filters,sensors to check the % of alcohol in the fuel...

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its possible, but alot of work.

the big question would be WHY? You'll burn 30% more just to get the same power and performance, which eats up any savings at the pump.

Then why does Chevrolet do it?

My dads Chevy truck can run on E85 and he's tried it a few times and worked all the numbers. He's seen no significant money savings by doing it...he says all it does it makes him stop for gas more often. :ride:

What's Chevrolet's point in making E85 acceptable vehicles if there is no true savings? :thumbsup: Serious question.

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It's all about tax incentives and money!! I inspect fuel stations for my fire department and we recently have run into ethanol in quite a few stations.

Without going too deep into the subject I will do my best to explain.

IRS gives tax incentives to Ethanol producers and stations that dispense. The problem is we as a country have rushed into the E-85 craze un-prepared.

E-85 eats soft metals including aluminum, brass and zinc. It also accelerates corrosion that already exists in steel. UL laboratories which tests items to ensure they are safe for the public has not yet approved a fuel dispenser for use with E-85. The ethanol is eating the components and causing leaks.

Also most people don't realize water gets in the underground fuel tanks, its not a huge problem in gas unless there is an excessive amount but when E-85 gets saturated with water it actually separates forming E-100 and E-??. This is Phase separation and is not good. Even the E-85 coalition recommend checking the tanks for water on a daily basis which I know does not get done in most places.

Other fun facts!!

It takes 5-7 gallons of water and 1 gallon of gas to make a 1.5 gallons of ethanol.

I know there is always people for and against some things so I do encourage you to do some of your own research. Here are a few helpful links. Iowa seems to lead the way in regulations.

http://www.iowadnr.com/land/ust/technicalresources/ethanol.html

http://www.ul.com/regulators/e85.cfm

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

Hope this helps

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E85 is made by large corps (gas companies) they artificially raise the price of ethel-alcohol so that they arnt competing with themselves. Now that being said it turns out E85 is a gigantic cash cow for fuel companies because of the new profit margin. it should be about a buck cheaper, but they price it out of the market so it will never catch on

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If you do a FULL conversion to e-85, you can get every bit the MPGs you got with straigh gas. However, to do this, you must run compression ratios that would grenade your engine if you ever put unleaded in it. E-85 is 105 octane around here, and regular is 85. If you build an engine to utilize the octane, you can get the mileage.

Kind of like diesel. Diesel gets 30-50% more power out of a gallon of fuel, but there aren't that many more btus in a gallon of diesel. The efficiency is in the compression ratio (about double that in a gas engine) and the ability to run an 'extra lean burn' in a diesel when compared to gas.

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Then why does Chevrolet do it?

My dads Chevy truck can run on E85 and he's tried it a few times and worked all the numbers. He's seen no significant money savings by doing it...he says all it does it makes him stop for gas more often. :ride:

What's Chevrolet's point in making E85 acceptable vehicles if there is no true savings? :thumbsup: Serious question.

E85 was pushed for multiple reasons-

Reducing dependance on foreign oil-for every 100 gallons of E85 that is produced, we need only consume 15 gallons of gasoline. There are those who say it's a net energy loss (it takes gasoline to produce it), but the end game is eliminate foreign oil-if those crops were planted using bio-diesel, then that would drastically reduce the oil consumption.

Emissions-E85 burns cleaner than gasoline.

When E85 was brought to market, we had such an abundance of grain in this nation that we were literally throwing it away-grain prices were less than the cost of production, and the help solve the supply/demand equation, the idea was that we could produce motor fuel out of it.

This helped make farmers self-sustainable, and no longer dependant upon farm subsidies like in years past-they actually have a viable, profitable market for their production.

E85 is made by large corps (gas companies) they artificially raise the price of ethel-alcohol so that they arnt competing with themselves. Now that being said it turns out E85 is a gigantic cash cow for fuel companies because of the new profit margin. it should be about a buck cheaper, but they price it out of the market so it will never catch on

In my area, the E85 plants are owned by the ag cooperatives, not the oil company's.

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An example of E-85 "burning cleaner":crazy:

IMG2198_198_002.jpg

ON a serious note it does have greatly reduced greenhouse emmisions.:thumbsup: And it is an alternative to imported oil.

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Then why does Chevrolet do it?

My dads Chevy truck can run on E85 and he's tried it a few times and worked all the numbers. He's seen no significant money savings by doing it...he says all it does it makes him stop for gas more often. :ride:

What's Chevrolet's point in making E85 acceptable vehicles if there is no true savings? :thumbsup: Serious question.

To appease the treehuggers, and make folks feel good about giving farmers their cash instead of oil companys.

At current prices, E85 is a break even financially. Its cheaper per gallon, but it hurts your fuel mileage enough to eat up any savings. For the most part the ethanol craze is just fluff.

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To appease the treehuggers, and make folks feel good about giving farmers their cash instead of oil companys.

At current prices, E85 is a break even financially. Its cheaper per gallon, but it hurts your fuel mileage enough to eat up any savings. For the most part the ethanol craze is just fluff.

Silly ethanol, reduction of pollutants, reducing dependance on foreign oil all the while producing a viable market for grain that removes farmers from Federal Welfare rolls.:ride:

Sure glad we haven't done something as dumb as Brazil.....:thumbsup:

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yeah, turning our food supply into a mediocre fuel (that costs a fortune to make and would never be profitable without subsidies) is a great idea :thumbsup:

I'm all for reducing our consumption of foreign oil... and the best way to do that is start drilling our own.

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Silly ethanol, reduction of pollutants, reducing dependance on foreign oil all the while producing a viable market for grain that removes farmers from Federal Welfare rolls.:ride:

Sure glad we haven't done something as dumb as Brazil.....:thumbsup:

Did you notice in the artical they use sugar to make Ethanol which is far more cost effective than using corn? I do not oppose E-85 in the least, we do need to find a solution to our energy needs but if you really do the research you will see even the ethanol coalition admits our current process of making ethanol is far from efficient.

Soon methods should be refined to make the process better but unfortunatly it is not the permenant solution everyone wants it to be. A Study done at Cornell shows it takes about 131,000 BTU's to make one gallon of ethanol which only produces 77,000 BTU's.

ON the green side here is a good site that does show the positives of Ethanol

http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_3a.html

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yeah, turning our food supply into a mediocre fuel (that costs a fortune to make and would never be profitable without subsidies) is a great idea :thumbsup:

Another one of the fallacies being purported by those who wish to spread myths.

Field corn isn't food corn. Food grade corn is a mere sliver of US corn production. Food Grade corn acreage is about 2.5-3 million acres, while Field corn (livestock feed) is around 77 MILLION acres in the US.

Oh, and if you're worried that cattle somewhere are going hungry due to ethanol production, fear not-the "leavings" (ground mash) from making ethanol are used as livestock feed.

Right now, we have around 35-36 MILLION acres of farm land in CRP programs-among those are the "pay farmers not to grow crops" programs.

If even half of that land was released, we could grow enough field corn to feed people who want to eat it.:ride:

For those who don't know, field corn has a starchy, bland flavor.

Ethanol from corn isn't the ultimate solution, but like many problems, there are many steps towards a final answer.

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Did you notice in the artical they use sugar to make Ethanol which is far more cost effective than using corn? I do not oppose E-85 in the least, we do need to find a solution to our energy needs but if you really do the research you will see even the ethanol coalition admits our current process of making ethanol is far from efficient.

Soon methods should be refined to make the process better but unfortunatly it is not the permenant solution everyone wants it to be. A Study done at Cornell shows it takes about 131,000 BTU's to make one gallon of ethanol which only produces 77,000 BTU's.

ON the green side here is a good site that does show the positives of Ethanol

http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_3a.html

The USDA reports a 1.24:1 ROI on energy from Ethanol. http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aer721/

Like I said, E85 isn't the ultimate solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

Hey, at least there's someone trying to do something with this energy situation, thank God we didn't get GM to answer the problem, they still can't build a truck to handle a snowplow.:thumbsup:

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:bonk:

Hey don't get me wrong. I'd rather burn a dollar than give it to another country and if you can use ethanol or another bio-fuel then thats great and its a great start.

I just do not think people should be told the fuel is so great and does not have its share of problems. FACTS must be presented good or bad so people can make their own decisions.

Clean, good for the economy and MADE HERE IN THE GREAT OLD USA is great.:thumbsup:

Effficient it is not. Yes it uses corn people don't want to eat but using 5-7 gallons of water per gallon of Ethanol is not so good, especially for us in the west. Everyone goes to point out that it 105+ octain. Thats good but not how MPG is made. The BTU value along with the cost of production for a fuel is what determines its efficiency.

1 barrel of crude oil = 5,800,000 Btu

1 gallon of residual fuel oil = 149,690 Btu

1 gallon of gasoline = 125,000 Btu

1 gallon of ethanol = 84,400 Btu

1 gallon methanol = 62,800 Btu

1 gallon of gasohol

(10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) = 120,900 Btu

1 gallon of E-85

(85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) = 90,500 Btu

1 gallon of kerosene or light distillate oil = 135,000 Btu

1 gallon of diesel fuel oil = 138,690 Btu

1 gallon of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) = 95,475 Btu

The ROI on gas is 3to1

on diesel 7to1

and yes ethanol 1.24to1

On the environmental side, it does cause non compatible under ground storage systems to corrode and leak. This releases the residual benzene from the gas to contaminate the ground water and cause cancer. This is a fact.

The average fuel station clean up from a leaking system is 250,000+++:ride:

If you your curious about how ethanol reacts with metals and water I suggest put some E-85 in mason jars. one with a piece of aluminum. 1 with brass and watch the corrosion start. You can also add water to one and watch it seperate.

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I hope I did not offend anyone because that is definately not my intent. I just wanted to pass on any information I had on the subject. I deal with it every day and see its pro's and con's and unfortunatly there are many myths that are meant to give ethanol a bad name. (my guess is these originate from BIG OIL)

And Chickenhauler I do agree with you, it is a start in the right direction and I do not have a better soulution to offer in its place.

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I hope I did not offend anyone because that is definately not my intent. I just wanted to pass on any information I had on the subject. I deal with it every day and see its pro's and con's and unfortunatly there are many myths that are meant to give ethanol a bad name. (my guess is these originate from BIG OIL)

And Chickenhauler I do agree with you, it is a start in the right direction and I do not have a better soulution to offer in its place.

It's all good!:thumbsup:

We BOTH aired out some facts and brought to light some of the fallacies being spread by BOTH sides.

Besides, I have a vested interest in corn prices.........:ride:

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It's all good!:thumbsup:

We BOTH aired out some facts and brought to light some of the fallacies being spread by BOTH sides.

Besides, I have a vested interest in corn prices.........:bonk:

Then I have good news for you. I just got back from a seminar. Currently we have about 131 Ethanol plants in the U.S. with 250+ more in construction and the planning phase :ride:

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