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Rotella oil??

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WE use RotellaT 15w40 for comparison testing all the time. The fact that this oils performance goes away soon isnt coming from just us. It is also posted on this site by other members.

When we do pro level testing on new Rotellat 15w40 dino oil the add pack starts fading immediately. In less than 2 hours the add pack starts going away even more rapidly. After a few motos the temps start rising faster than they did with fresh Rotella. Shifting becomes very notchy etc.

🙂:ride::D:worthy:

RC, do not take this wrong, but what are your qualifications? Do you work for a lab that tests automotive oils? If so, do you have any particular oils that you would recommend over the Rotella that would be more suitable?

I just bought a new 250 XCF and on the 1st oil change I used the recommended Motorex at $15/liter. I've been considering a switch to Mobil 1 20W-50 motorcycle oil. I saw some at Autozone for $9.49/quart so that would be a significant savings over the Swiss stuff. Or would I be better off to choose some other brand?

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Do you really think that a low rpm diesel holding 15gal of oil is as hard on the oil than a high rpm motorcycle engine that is lubricating the engine, gearbox and clutch with the same oil and only holds 1200cc ? Ever think about the Horsepower per CC of a automotive or truck engine verses a racing motorcycle engine ? How about normal operating RPM ? Do you really think that a automotive / diesel oil will provide the same level of protection verses a Synthetic motorcycle racing oil ?

Just a thought.

Dwight :D

Yes, but thanks for the info. Let's agree to disagree.🙂

BTW...don't you work for a motorcycle parts distributor or something?

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RC, do not take this wrong, but what are your qualifications? Do you work for a lab that tests automotive oils? If so, do you have any particular oils that you would recommend over the Rotella that would be more suitable?

I just bought a new 250 XCF and on the 1st oil change I used the recommended Motorex at $15/liter. I've been considering a switch to Mobil 1 20W-50 motorcycle oil. I saw some at Autozone for $9.49/quart so that would be a significant savings over the Swiss stuff. Or would I be better off to choose some other brand?

LOL , Yes, These are the Two2Cool guys. They do extreme stress and heat testing all the time on oils and coolants. So I would say Yes they have a lab. NO, they work with motorcycles not autos. Why would you want him to work for a lab that tests automotive oils ? Yes, there are a lot of oils more suitable than Rotella. Rotella works for most but is barely suitable for motorcycle use not optimal. DO NOT RUN A 20W50 in your New 250 XCF . You will destroy your engine as it will not lubricate in cold weather and until the oil reaches full operating temps. It has very small oil orfices and tight clearances. It needs light oils like a 5W40.

Dwight

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The other side of that argument is:

Do you really think a 600+ HP diesel, making 1300 degree EGTs and towing 12,000+ pounds for hours on end, with oil changes only every 5000 miles is easier on oil than a 50hp motorbike that gets maintenance every 200 miles??

I've dealt with a number of over-the-road fleet and marine diesels and have personally seen the oil analysis on them. Rotella is no joke. I know there are plenty of people who swear by their $15/qt specialty-oils, but knowing what a real torture test the Rotella can endure AND having to bet the survival of $100k + marine diesels on it, I'll stick with the Rotella.

Optimum exhaust gas temps are in the 1,200 to 1,300 range on most engines so that is no feat. Think about how much oil is carried , RPM operation , HP per CC. Does the engine oil lubricate the gearbox and wet clutch too ? Yes , I think a Diesel is a lot easier on oil than a racing dirt bike. Really a no brainer in my opinion.

Dwight

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Those may be "normal" EGTs, but in most engines (our bikes included) the oil isn't required to lubricate and cool a turbocharger taking the brunt of those temps. Nor is it used as a coolant for the bottom of the pistons to keep them from turning into liquid metal. Sure most diesels have oil coolers, but in our bikes, the whole freaking motor is one big aluminum heat sink hanging out in the breeze.

HP/cc is nearly identical between the two as well, but the diesel is required to maintain it for far greater duration and under much heavier load.

I can't speak for the older bikes, but in the newer KTMs, like my 530 EXC-R, the transmission/clutch and engine oil are kept seperate, so one batch of oil, regardless of type, is not required to do double-duty.

The oil argument is older than time, much like the tire argument, chain-lube argument, etc. Most people are set in their ways and won't change for anything, and that's fine. It's a free country and that freedom extends to paying $15/qt for wazoo oils and such. Let's just try to avoid confusing opinions with analytical data. All that does is confuse the issue and do a dis-service to those following behind who might not have any firsthand technical knowledge to base their own decisions off of.

As a side note, I wonder why no one ever brings up Chevron Delo when talking about oils. I've never used it, but a lot of guys swear by that stuff too. Does anyone have any experience with it? It's available everywhere and seems to be nearly as popular as Rotella in the diesel world.

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Because DELO now contains enough friction modifiers ( Moly ) that it causes clutch slippage.

Also most 4 stroke engines use oil to cool the underside of the pistons. Most 4 stroke motorcycle engines are at least partially oil cooled.

HP / CC is not even close. You better recheck that. If that was the case the diesel engine would be only 5000 to 6000 CC. If they actually put out 600 hp. Which I doubt.

(Cummins Inc. announced new product developments ... Delivering 500 hp at 2100 rpm, the 11 L engine )

What about the huge amount of oil that a diesel engine carries vs the amount that a motorcycle engine uses ?

All that has to be considered. Use what you want. Seems that many get away with using the wrong oils. It would be my luck to be using cheap oil like Rotella and my engine blow up in the middle of a race that I drove 24hrs to attend.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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DO NOT RUN A 20W50 in your New 250 XCF . You will destroy your engine as it will not lubricate in cold weather and until the oil reaches full operating temps. It has very small oil orfices and tight clearances. It needs light oils like a 5W40.

Dwight

I live in Houston, Texas. We have only three seasons here: Summer, July, and August. I could run a straight 50 weight and it would flow like water at ambient temperature :-)

Seriously, though, I understand what the numbers represent. I honestly doubt I'd destroy my engine running 20W-50 when temps are in the 50's. Not to mention that is what the factory recommends for my bike.

So who are the Two2Cool guys? Never heard of them. I'm fairly new to the forum.

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I live in Houston, Texas. We have only three seasons here: Summer, July, and August. I could run a straight 50 weight and it would flow like water at ambient temperature :-)

Seriously, though, I understand what the numbers represent. I honestly doubt I'd destroy my engine running 20W-50 when temps are in the 50's. Not to mention that is what the factory recommends for my bike.

So who are the Two2Cool guys? Never heard of them. I'm fairly new to the forum.

Do a search on the internet for "Two2Cool" to find out. They have been making coolant products for oil and radiator fluid for some time now.

My weather is exactly like yours as I am in Jackson, MS. If you ran staight 50w in a KTM you would destroy it in short order. KTM recommends a 10W50. You could use a 15W50 if warmed up carefully in the 400cc + engines but in the RC4 250cc engine you could damage it due to the small oil spray orfices. I used Torco 50W racing oil in my Honda XR280 back in the 80s and it worked fine until I tried to start in on a 25 degree day. It took me an hour to get it started as it was hard to turn over. On 40 degree and warmer days it was no problem. You have not mentioned what bike you said the factory recommended 20W50 in . Most recommend much lighter oil than they did 20 years ago.

Dwight 🙂

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As a side note, I wonder why no one ever brings up Chevron Delo when talking about oils. I've never used it, but a lot of guys swear by that stuff too. Does anyone have any experience with it? It's available everywhere and seems to be nearly as popular as Rotella in the diesel world.

I used it for long time, but they added some friction reducers to it and they are not good for the clutch.

There's another example of deisel oil used in a bike, a 2004 yz450 ridden and raced hard (desert) with a Rekluse Z-start. I did not have to adjust the valves for a whopping 2-1/2 years (cant figure that one out) and I never replaced the stock clutch plates. Now that bike is owned by my plumbing contractor.

No, I do not have oil statistics to back it up, all I know is it works.

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You have not mentioned what bike you said the factory recommended 20W50 in . Most recommend much lighter oil than they did 20 years ago.

Dwight 🙂

Oops. I stand corrected, It does call for a 10W-50. It's the 250 XCF.

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Oops. I stand corrected, It does call for a 10W-50. It's the 250 XCF.

Try to use a 5W40 or 5W50 if you can.

Dwight 🙂

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HP / CC is not even close. You better recheck that. If that was the case the diesel engine would be only 5000 to 6000 CC. If they actually put out 600 hp. Which I doubt.

(Cummins Inc. announced new product developments ... Delivering 500 hp at 2100 rpm, the 11 L engine )

6000cc

dyno.jpg

And what happens when hp/cc gets a little too high:

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/llybad.wmv

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What about the huge amount of oil that a diesel engine carries vs the amount that a motorcycle engine uses ?

My Duramax carried 10 quarts. The "computer" recommended oil changes anywhere from 8,000 to 12,000 miles depending on driving conditions.

I put "computer" in quotes because it didn't actually analyze the oil itself... it based it's recommendation on engine temperature, RPM, and load factors.

10 quarts @ 10,000 miles vs 1.5 quarts at 200 miles?

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6000cc

dyno.jpg

And what happens when hp/cc gets a little too high:

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/llybad.wmv

Thanks. THAT is a lot of torque. Horse power is realistic also.

350 hp with 6000cc is about 1hp per 17.14cc

That high performance Cummins 11L / 500 hp engine is putting out about 1hp per 22cc.

A KTM 450 is putting out about 1hp per 9cc.

A HT Racing 350 is putting out about 1hp per 8cc

A HT Racing Team Red Bull KTM 340 is putting out about 1hp per 7cc

And the KTM does this on just over a quart of oil. A lot of heat and wear and tear on such a small amount of oil.

Thanks for the info and demo.

Dwight 🙂

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Thanks. THAT is a lot of torque. Horse power is realistic also.

350 hp with 6000cc is about 1hp per 17.14cc

That high performance Cummins 11L / 500 hp engine is putting out about 1hp per 22cc.

A KTM 450 is putting out about 1hp per 9cc.

A HT Racing 350 is putting out about 1hp per 8cc

A HT Racing Team Red Bull KTM 340 is putting out about 1hp per 7cc

And the KTM does this on just over a quart of oil. A lot of heat and wear and tear on such a small amount of oil.

Thanks for the info and demo.

Dwight :D

And let's not forget that some have huge oil coolers. The workload in multi cylinder engines also spreads out that load amongst many cylinders. In a single, ALL of the work is done by 1 cylinder. Then to top it all off, that same oil is not cooled off, but shred by the tranny gears.

I will finish off this gallon of Rotella and decide after that. I did notice that it became dark in color after only 1 ride of about 2 hours. The Amsoil I was in it before would take quite a few hours and days to get discolored.

What to do, what to do ? 🙂

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These oil threads always end up in the same place, with the EXPERTS saying no,no,no to anythying other than what they believe in. I just don't understand why, if these cheaper oils are so bad, there are no reports about engine failure due to using them. 👍

+1 well said.

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These oil threads always end up in the same place, with the EXPERTS saying no,no,no to anythying other than what they believe in. I just don't understand why, if these cheaper oils are so bad, there are no reports about engine failure due to using them. 👍

Some of the "experts" have financial interest in selling oil.

Do you really think that a low rpm diesel holding 15gal of oil is as hard on the oil than a high rpm motorcycle engine that is lubricating the engine, gearbox and clutch with the same oil and only holds 1200cc ? Ever think about the Horsepower per CC of a automotive or truck engine verses a racing motorcycle engine ? How about normal operating RPM ? Do you really think that a automotive / diesel oil will provide the same level of protection verses a Synthetic motorcycle racing oil ?

Just a thought.

Dwight :worthy:

Check your facts, Dwight-if you put 15 gallons in a semi, you're overfull by 4 gallons, some by 5.

40-44 quarts is the norm, and that's for a 12-16L engine displacement.

Optimum exhaust gas temps are in the 1,200 to 1,300 range on most engines so that is no feat. Think about how much oil is carried , RPM operation , HP per CC. Does the engine oil lubricate the gearbox and wet clutch too ? Yes , I think a Diesel is a lot easier on oil than a racing dirt bike. Really a no brainer in my opinion.

Dwight

Does a motorcycle see oil temps in excess of 175F in the pan, and much higher than that in the turbo charger bearings?

How hot does a thumper turbo charger get?

Sorry, oil temps in motorcycles don't come close to that in a turbo charger.

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Try to use a 5W40 or 5W50 if you can.

Dwight 👍

I don't think it's strictly necessary to use a 5W-** in this climate, particularly since the 10W-50 is recommended. Rarely does it ever get down to 32 F here in SE Texas, and when it does, I'll be sitting at home keeping warm, rather than freezing my arse off on the KTM.

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LOL , Yes, These are the Two2Cool guys. They do extreme stress and heat testing all the time on oils and coolants. So I would say Yes they have a lab. NO, they work with motorcycles not autos. Why would you want him to work for a lab that tests automotive oils ?

Dwight

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Two2Cool guys are not running an independent oil test lab for the benefit of the motorcycle community. They are in the business of selling oil and other MC products. They have a vested interest in pushing their products over the competition's. I take their claims with a grain of salt. I might try their engine coolant for use, especially since I have a couple of bikes that tend to run hot. (Did I mention I live in Houston?)

This is like all the claims I keep hearing about Amsoil. Every time I read a review or comparison of Amsoil, it is always published by Amsoil. And guess what? Their data always says their oil is better than anyone else's. It must be true, it says so right in their lab reports. I have yet to locate an independent study or report which validates their claims, and I've taken a passing interest in the topic for the past few years.

When I speak of automotive oils, I am referring to a class of oils which would include motorcycle and truck oils, not just automobile (car) specific oil.

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