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Countershaft seal woes 01 DR650

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I'm very mechanicaly inclined and I do all of my own work. I've installed much more technically challenging seals on more vehicles than I can count.

Yet I'm failing to understand why this seal continually fails by being pushed out of the case.

I've replaced 2 countershaft seals on this bike and I cannot get the seal to stay in place for more than 500 miles or so. There is no play in the countershaft and the chain is not too tight. The surfaces are clean and dry.

Crankcase vent is clear.

I've tried gluing it in with Permatex #1 and #2, Red RTv silicone, Goop...........what else should I try?

Muk

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Is it possible (and I don't know for sure as I don't have a DR), that your crankcase vent system is pinched or plugged, causing sufficient pressure to build and "push" the seal out?

A few questions...

Are you using an OEM seal, or aftermarket item?

Is the seal a rubber coated OD seal or is it metal?

Is there a shoulder the seal stops against, or is the depth controlled by the person installing the seal?

C

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I'm pretty certain it is intended to be installed dry. Putting sealer on the outside can make it easier for crankcase pressure to push it out.

Excessive blowby can push seals out. Maybe do a leakdown test?

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Is it possible (and I don't know for sure as I don't have a DR), that your crankcase vent system is pinched or plugged, causing sufficient pressure to build and "push" the seal out?

A few questions...

Are you using an OEM seal, or aftermarket item?

Is the seal a rubber coated OD seal or is it metal?

Is there a shoulder the seal stops against, or is the depth controlled by the person installing the seal?

C

Breather vent is clear, both seals were Suzuki parts. Rubber coated seal. depth controlled by me........ maybe too deep?

Muk

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I'm pretty certain it is intended to be installed dry. Putting sealer on the outside can make it easier for crankcase pressure to push it out.

Excessive blowby can push seals out. Maybe do a leakdown test?

The next one is going in completely dry. (3rd time is a charm)

This thing runs entirely too well to have a compression problem. No oil usage at all and I'm running 5w-40 synthetic. Oil remains clear with no soot or plug fouling either.:)

Muk

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Breather vent is clear, both seals were Suzuki parts. Rubber coated seal. depth controlled by me........ maybe too deep?

Muk

Or maybe not deep enough.

As Procycle suggested, some sealants will cause more problems with rubber cased seals than help. Sometimes its better to apply a film of sealant around the press OD, after the seal is installed... or bag the sealant entirely.

When I replace a rubber case sprocket shaft seal, I use a bit of oil on the seal bore and body... and that's about it. Never done a DR though.

You could... and this is a bit on the dangerous side, do a slight peen on the aluminum, close to the seal edge, in about 4-5 places, to "lock" the seal in place. Use a broad nose center punch, about 1/16" to 3/32" deep, about a 1/16" off the edge of the aluminum.

Like I said, a bit dangerous and a bit of a pain if you have to replace the seal again, but it does work.

Another (and perhaps better or best) alternative... find a metal OD seal of the same design and dimensions.

C

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The seal is fully inserted (trust me) if anything it is too deep. With no inside lip to restrain it it could even be touching the countershaft bearing.

At this point I'm even entertaining using nylon spacers to fill the gap between the sprocket and the seal or doubling up the seal like they do on outboard motors.

Muk

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To have enough air pressure to "push" the C/S seal out wouldn't you have oil coming out of every other seal and case part? I know you said there's no end-play in the shaft - it might be good to check again with the bike in and out of gear. Push and pull hard?

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Hi, Does the oil level make any differnce? Is there any patten to when the seal comes out (engine colds, hot)? How many miles have you done with the bike? Has the probelm just stated or been on the bike since you go it?

Regards Rob

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To have enough air pressure to "push" the C/S seal out wouldn't you have oil coming out of every other seal and case part? I know you said there's no end-play in the shaft - it might be good to check again with the bike in and out of gear. Push and pull hard?

There is virtually no end play side to side, in or out.

I've even ridden without the breather tube hooked up to check blow by and it produced just a little oil spatter like removing the oil fill cap while running.

Muk

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Muk,

Is the oil level too high, possibly robbing space for piston/ air displacement? It can cause overpressure in the crankcase

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Hi, Does the oil level make any differnce? Is there any patten to when the seal comes out (engine colds, hot)? How many miles have you done with the bike? Has the probelm just stated or been on the bike since you go it?

Regards Rob

When I blew the first seal out (May) the bike was over filled with oil.(previous owner) I thought that this was the problem. Oil level is correct now!

It seems to be more prone to ejecting the seal when cold.

When I installed the last seal (yesterday) I did a very close inspection of the mating surface on the case and found that it is not machined correctly. The top of the case has less surface area contacting the seal than the bottom.

That is why the seal always ejects at the 11 o'clock position first.

Muk

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I have the same problem whith this seal, the first I see is some models of DR650 come whith a plate betwen the countersprocket and the seal, my DR65099 d'not have it. I put little amount of sealant in the outside of the seal.

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