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I need help guys! i had my xr650l and i'm comparing my XRR's suspension to that, the L's was much smoother for small bumps and jumps and bottomed kinda of easy but this R just JARS the crap out of me riding off road. what is the R supposed to feel like? i wouldn't be scared hitting some jumps with this set up its just super rough yet from the looks of it i need stiffer springs because of my size! help!

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My stock suspended R is a lot stiffer than my L with .47 fork springs and the rear preload cranked up.

Unfortunately I think I need to stiffen the R with springs as I have no problem bottoming it out on small jumps and I am only 165lbs.

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what does the fork oil look like? the xrr's had problems with the fluid gelling, maybe a fluid change would help.

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...i've tunned my bud's R till i'm blue in the face...it is just a harsher set-up with stock valving...stiffer frame, stiffer forks and different geometry...this is especally felt through the bars

now with different valving http://www.borynack.com/XR650R/index.htm it's my understanding it can be improved but there is no getting around the R's stiffer frame and forks VS the L's with more flex.

:)

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...i've tunned my bud's R till i'm blue in the face...it is just a harsher set-up with stock valving...stiffer frame, stiffer forks and different geometry...this is especally felt through the bars

now with different valving http://www.borynack.com/XR650R/index.htm it's my understanding it can be improved but there is no getting around the R's stiffer frame and forks VS the L's with more flex.

:)

Are we starting to realize that in stock form the L will get through stuff easier & more comfortably than the R:excuseme: To be honest I have not ridden an R but my L is the best ride I have had maybe ever:excuseme:

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Are we starting to realize that in stock form the L will get through stuff easier & more comfortably than the R:excuseme: To be honest I have not ridden an R but my L is the best ride I have had maybe ever:excuseme:

At slow speeds. Start to push it, and then the R will walk away as the suspension and frame of the L cannot take the abuse at high speeds like the R can.

The R is designed to excel in one area. Baja. High speeds with chop and square edges are it's domain. Springs are critical for proper setup and suspension action.

With soft springs (or those that are too soft for a rider's weight) the forks will feel very harsh, as they are riding in the midstroke and have no room for plushness. I have had the best results with using the stiffest springs I can find to allow the suspension to use as much of its stroke length as possible. I keep the ride height of the bike as high as possible. Then I can change oil height to increase plushness (lower) and change the valving to control the high speed hits. There are many other ways to set up a suspension, but this is how I do the forks on my 650R. Of course, if you are of a shorter inseam, this method can be a real drawback.

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At slow speeds. Start to push it, and then the R will walk away as the suspension and frame of the L cannot take the abuse at high speeds like the R can.

The R is designed to excel in one area. Baja. High speeds with chop and square edges are it's domain. Springs are critical for proper setup and suspension action.

With soft springs (or those that are too soft for a rider's weight) the forks will feel very harsh, as they are riding in the midstroke and have no room for plushness. I have had the best results with using the stiffest springs I can find to allow the suspension to use as much of its stroke length as possible. I keep the ride height of the bike as high as possible. Then I can change oil height to increase plushness (lower) and change the valving to control the high speed hits. There are many other ways to set up a suspension, but this is how I do the forks on my 650R. Of course, if you are of a shorter inseam, this method can be a real drawback.

A very knowledgable response. Thanks.

So from this I take if you don't have the ability & speed of a Baja racer, stay off the R?:) Seriously, even at 67 I can still get down the trail at a pretty good pace. Rode out of St George a couple weeks ago, rocky sandwashes & some pretty whooped out trailes. Pushed it hard with knock on wood:bonk: no get offs or near misses. I kind of think what we are really debating here is the performance with the least money spent & the least mods. done of each bike?

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When you say start to push it, how fast are you talking about? And more importantly, just how often and what percentage of your riding is at that speed? I have riden WR TOMs bike, and his suspension is sweet:thumbsup: . I think it should be called "Red Butter" cause it's so smooth. :D Too many people ride bikes that are set up for racing and yet don't race. Most (myself included) would be better off with a nice plush setup rather than what the magazines whould have us think is the hot setup. Moto or desert racing and trail riding are worlds apart. Having riden new CRF450R's and X's and the new KTM's only made me more convinced that unless you're racing, that beating the crap out of yourself with overly stiff suspension is just plain dumb :) IMNSHO. My butt and my back agree that plush is best. But then, most would say that I'm just old and slow.

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Some of the major problems with the XR650R suspension is Honda's idea of making a heavy off road bike that was designed for a 170 pound person work for a 270 pound person as well. To do this they put viscosity modifires (whale oil) in the fork oil and closed down the compression valve ports from the original design. They made the same ports even smaller around 2005 till they stopped making the bike. This makes for forks with .43kg/mm springs (170 pound person) that lock up (hydrolic) when compressed to fast. The reason for this???? to sell as many bikes as possible to the Weekend Worrior knowing that any serious rider is going to setup the suspension for their riding/racing style. This "stock" setup doesn't work well for even someone that is the right weight. It isn't even a good compromise. Once you biuld the suspension back to the origanal design and install springs for your weight and a shim stack for your riding style the XR650R suspension becomes ultra plush and resists bottoming up to 4 foot dead drop off's!:) More if your moving along at a good clip.

The BAD problems is the whale snot absorbs water and your forks are rusted inside:thumbsdn: The smaller compression ports in the forks make for Hydrolicing making the front tire washout on a fast fire road turn with any kind on bump in it. The pushing, knifing....it sucks.

240 pound rider with stock suspension....what happens when you try to adjust the suspension? The bike is bottoming on soft roller 'G' outs and it feels like it is even bottoming on small ruts/roots.....It is bottoming on the ruts/roots its locking up but, anyways you adjust the compression adjuster (bottom of the fork adjuster under the rubber plug) stiffer and now the ruts/roots seem even worse and now the bike is unstable in tight turns and the bike is opening up and bucking you through the whoops. If you are not going to change the springs to handle your weight then you have to live with something being way out of wack.....take the 'G' outs and bottoming:banghead: Sounds sick but, have I would rather have the bike stay planted through a turn. Something like 18 clicks out on compression and 11 clicks out on rebound (top of fork adjuster) to control the rate better. The right answer is to port the fork compression valves to 3.65mm, 3wt fluid or lighter, shim stack for your riding style and get the right springs for your weight. Not even close to the same bike and now you have a setup that can handle most anything you can throw at this bike. Yes, even plusher then the "L":p

Links that might help you with your bike:

http://borynack.com/XR650R/

http://borynack.com/xr650r.htm

http://borynack.com/Honda%20XR650R%20Suspension%20ww1.doc

http://borynack.com/Honda%20XR650R%20Suspension%20www.doc

http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=266765

http://borynack.com/XR650R/Suspension/KYBSHOWA.htm

http://borynack.com/XR650R/Suspension/suspensiontuning.htm

Can the XR650R handle a 70+ foot step over? Sure it can but I only did that once...it's the first part of this video....never went that far again on that jump.....the wife just happened to have the video out when I went from the CR250R and jumped on the XR650R for the same jump......not the same bike

Links that might help you with your bike:

http://borynack.com/XR650R/Video/Pigs%20in%20flight.wmv

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I have the Borynack setup. He walked me right thru it. I've been in a few nasty situations and frankly I think it would have been painful if not for an updated suspension. I went with his Baja 1000 setup (he says its more soft endurance setup). I still think I need to dial it in. I'm old and slow now so my primary demands from my suspension are to save my bacon when something bad comes up, so far it has worked out great.

I have only bottomed the front end a couple times which makes me think I need to remove some fork oil so it will work a little more.

Bruce does quite a service for us 650r riders as he has done lots of research on his toys. I can't imagine any of the big name suspension guys having put in so much time to make these bikes ride well (well besides shops building baja bikes).

Thanks Bruce

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As for what I consider fast riding...

I should note that my idea of trail riding, like others out in the west, varies quite a bit from what you guys out in the east consider trail riding. Fast speed IMO with the bike is up over 20+ mph on the trail. I guess fast riding is what I consider it if I can get the bike up into third gear and it is happy.

I look at the taller/stiffer setup that I use on the 650R as a necessity when riding with others due to the sheer size of the bike. With your feet stuck out farther (side to side) than any one else, I feel that it is very important to me to keep my feet up and out of the rocks. I have broken toes on rocks that others didn't even see and now I am gunshy on that front.

Even with the bottoming stiffness of the suspension I use, I still have good compliance on the low speed terrain. Before getting my first 650R (in 2000) I rode big green couches (KX500s). I like a nice compliant suspension that can take the big hit. FWIW my KTM 505 SX-F makes my 650R seem like a giant marshmallow.

I do extensively race the 650R. Desert, GPs, and 24hr races. I have retired it from MX now that I have the 505, but I did race 650Rs in MX from the time I first got one right up until I bought the KTM (about three months ago).

I should go out and get some video of what the 650R is truly capable of if you just throw your love of the bike out the window, but my R is currently in a state of disrepair. I threw it down the pavement at around 60mph trying my hand at a supermoto race for the first time a few weeks ago and really did some damage. Nothing like sliding behind your baby watching the titanium footpegs throw nice white sparks at you. Especially when you laid the bike down intentionally.:)

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