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Honda halts all 2 stroke models in 2008?

By 1998cr250r,
in Honda 2 Stroke

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1998cr250r

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relax, it's not like the 2-stroke was a big loss ?

Just in the USA is the four-stroke so tremendously popular. They still race 2-strokes in GP I think.

yes 4 strokes are popular to some people, but not to someone like me. Not a big loss? unlike you some of us are DIEHARD 2 STROKE FANS, regardless of what ama and t.v. say about how 4 strokes are the best, i wouldn't trade my 98 cr250 to a brand new crf250 (NO WAY) i would rather ride a bicycle. As far as Honda goes, it's like a slap in the face to all who love the smell of premix. PEACE

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pedrow

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I have a direct connection with HRC as I work for a dealership in the UK which was the first ever HRC 'dealer' in the world outside of Japan.

I can tell you that there will be a few of the RS125 and RS250 GP bikes next year, but it is definately correct that the CR range of 2 stroke bikes has been discontinued - even to the point where some parts are no longer available.

Honda have a dislike towards 2 stroke technology and only see the way forward being in 4 stroke machinery, after all how many 2 stroke engines power any type of machinery in Honda's whole range (bikes, cars, outboards etc etc).

I don't like it as I'm a die hard fan of premix! A 2 stroke is way more fun than any diesel 4 stroke. You just can't beat the lightness and power that a CR or RS has!

Pete

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Carioca

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anyone else like me and waiting for the announcement of hondas new production line of fuel injected 2 strokes?

2012 models in 2011 maybe...

hope

chris<pixelmonkey>:D

Sign me up for those!!! I will slap a carb on it and it will be just like old times!!!

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Vino1

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This is depressing news. In addition it demonstrates the poor judement of the AMA. The AMA doubled the displacement of the 125 class for 4 cycle engines. Then they nearly doubled it for the 250 class to 450cc for 4 cycles engines.

If they changed the rules back to displacement size limits only. (no 4 stroke displacement bias). You would not see anyone racing a 4 stroke, except in 4 stroke only classes.

A 125 4 stroke racing a 125 2 stroke. The 4 stroke wouldn't be able to get out of its own way.

It is also sad to see a general lack of knowledge with the kids who have now grown up riding and racing a 4 stroke. Broad flat tracktable 4 stroke powerbands, easy to ride, kind of boring unless you are ridding a 450. Nothing to keep "on the pipe".

I miss the sound, smell and technology of "real race bikes".

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1998cr250r

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This is depressing news. In addition it demonstrates the poor judement of the AMA. The AMA doubled the displacement of the 125 class for 4 cycle engines. Then they nearly doubled it for the 250 class to 450cc for 4 cycles engines.

If they changed the rules back to displacement size limits only. (no 4 stroke displacement bias). You would not see anyone racing a 4 stroke, except in 4 stroke only classes.

A 125 4 stroke racing a 125 2 stroke. The 4 stroke wouldn't be able to get out of its own way.

It is also sad to see a general lack of knowledge with the kids who have now grown up riding and racing a 4 stroke. Broad flat tracktable 4 stroke powerbands, easy to ride, kind of boring unless you are ridding a 450. Nothing to keep "on the pipe".

I miss the sound, smell and technology of "real race bikes".

nice post bro

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Pugnasty

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Indeed a sad day has fallen upon us. I don't know what to be more depressed about right now. The fact that nearly every dollar that I have invested in is now an ash from the flames it went up in floating in the air with the breeze, or the fact that I will most likely not be able to buy a two stroke brand new for atleast a few more years if ever. The only upside right now for two strokes is the cost to run and the fact the economy is going to put the crunch on even full sponsored race teams. So maybe we will see a revival of sorts.

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MattFisher

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This is depressing news. In addition it demonstrates the poor judement of the AMA. The AMA doubled the displacement of the 125 class for 4 cycle engines. Then they nearly doubled it for the 250 class to 450cc for 4 cycles engines.

If they changed the rules back to displacement size limits only. (no 4 stroke displacement bias). You would not see anyone racing a 4 stroke, except in 4 stroke only classes.

A 125 4 stroke racing a 125 2 stroke. The 4 stroke wouldn't be able to get out of its own way.

It is also sad to see a general lack of knowledge with the kids who have now grown up riding and racing a 4 stroke. Broad flat tracktable 4 stroke powerbands, easy to ride, kind of boring unless you are ridding a 450. Nothing to keep "on the pipe".

I miss the sound, smell and technology of "real race bikes".

I agree with 1 exception- In the open bike class, 450-500cc 4 strokes would continue to outsell and often outperform 450-500cc 2 strokes. Yes I know that 2 strokes make more power per cc, but at that displacement, it's not about how much power, but about the quality of the power available. 4 strokes have smoother, broader power curves, rev higher, and do so with more traction.

At the 250cc level, the bikes should be fairly close, with the hp and weight advantages of the pinger offset by the above mentioned 4 stroke strengths.

Below 250cc- all 2 stroke baby!

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jbird710

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While the 4 stroke does have smoother power, there's still a niche market for the 500cc 2 stroke. There are those of us who will take it over a 4 stroke any day. There just isn't any substitute for that instant power hit to put an ear to ear grin on your face.

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com

http://www.cr500riders.com

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Vino1

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Matt Fisher,

One of the broadest and most tractable "powerbands" is that of the former KX500. The reason being is because it has a power valve, (CR500 does not). This powerband could further be tamed (if needed), by more flywheel inertia if wheelspin is a problem. I don't know if you have ever riden or raced one, but they are fun and very easy to ride. This would make a much more competitive motor over a 450 4 stroke. As well as be lighter, have less moving parts (less chance for a DNF), a lower center of gravity and be more affordable and easier to maintain. Point being is that there have been allot of 2 stroke bikes with great tractable broad powerbands.

These bikes (KX500's) reigned as the king of the desert for nearly 10 years (Rossler / Hamel), ect. The reason for this was the stable chassis and broad "meaty, tractable" powerband, again easy to ride. This did not change until Honda came out with the XR650. Again we see the "4 stroke displacement bias".

If your premis was true that: "4 strokes have a powerband advantage over 2 strokes", then why don't they let the 250 2 strokes race the 250 4 strokes?

The answer is that they don't and "That is why we have a displacement bias". The two different technologies are not evenly comparative. Therefore we have the displacement bias. The AMA thought about this long before we did.

In the begining most people thought the 4 stroke thing was cool and different. Another option for the racer to choose from, (started 10 years ago with the YZ400f). Now that former choice has been removed for all of us.

The truth of the matter about the AMA's decision to promote the displacement bias in the first place, is that by doing so, it enabled the Japs (manufactuer's) to realize the profit potential of the 4 stroke platform over that of the 2 stroke platform. The bikes cost more to produce and require expensive maintenance and replacement parts to campaign. Business runs on profit.

The whole idea that 4 stroke technology is superior to the 2 stroke technology is "BS". I 'll bet that you don't know that back in 1972 Honda was testing a 4 stroke 250? This was before the CR250 Elsinore (2 stroke), that Gary Jones won the 73 National championship on. I know this because I used to work with Gary Jones. He used to tell stories in the shop about how Honda developed the CR250 and he was one of the original test riders for Honda. Even back then Honda chose the 2 stroke technology (lighter and more performance potential), over the 4 stroke platform.

In addition, the belief that the 4 stroke is advantagous over the 2 stroke is primarily propagated by the industry because of profits. The aftermarket industry is also a part of this and is making a killing on the 4 strokes. An example of this would be exhaust systems. A 4 strokes exhaust system is nearly twice as much as that of a 2 stroke system. This without any merit or compelling reason. The 4 stroke head pipe is a straight extruded tube that someone has put through a pipe bender and welded a few other pieces together. Most of the silencer's designs are identical to that of a 2 stroke except that the outside diameter is twice the size. It has to hold more packing (attempt to quiet it down) and weights more, more chances of breaking and falling off. Bad design. My point is that there is not any more testing, labor, or material that goes into the production of a 4 stroke system over a 2 stroke. Marketing "BS".

Finally, For the guys who do continue to ride 2 strokes. The support has been dying. It is much more profitable for the engine builders to modify a 4 stroke motor. And so they recommend them.

Keep this in mind: The magazine guys can only test what the manufacturers make. The racers can only race what the manufacturers support. And endorsement is another word for "Payment".

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