Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

I like what I like ,who can/will do it?

Recommended Posts

I'm about tired of people "mechanics"telling me what I SHOULD like in my bike set up.:) Ive always had this problem.When I raced DH Mtn bikes and now with MX .

I'm probably too sensetive to my bike setup.And I'm not one of these guys who can ride any bike they pickup like a bat outta hell(I wish I could).That all said--I ride an 08 kxf 450f ,38 ,vet int,185 lbs,I've got the next set stiffer springs in the forks and +15cc?on the oil,13 out on compression,14 out on rebound.My shock is pretty much stock

My issue is the I always want more bottom-It feels pretty good now,I could go a little stiffer over all.But any local suspension guy first tells me that I shouldn't want anything stiffer.

I'm not Kevin Windham smooth by any means.Ive been riding for three years and in DH I just ran through stuff too.The more aggressive it all is the more fun I have and more comfortable I am.:D

I over jump stuff occasionally especially if its a new obstacle.But sometimes it's faster to flat land some stuff.But often it's hard to walk for a couple days after.

I don't want to piss any body off localy but i'm not giving somebody 600-700 bucks too work on my stuff who just told me what I want isn't possible.There are $6000 works kits out there but I can't believe nobody can do this for a normal amout of money. Sorry for the long windedness.Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm about tired of people "mechanics"telling me what I SHOULD like in my bike set up.:) Ive always had this problem.When I raced DH Mtn bikes and now with MX .

I'm probably too sensetive to my bike setup.And I'm not one of these guys who can ride any bike they pickup like a bat outta hell(I wish I could).That all said--I ride an 08 kxf 450f ,38 ,vet int,185 lbs,I've got the next set stiffer springs in the forks and +15cc?on the oil,13 out on compression,14 out on rebound.My shock is pretty much stock

My issue is the I always want more bottom-It feels pretty good now,I could go a little stiffer over all.But any local suspension guy first tells me that I shouldn't want anything stiffer.

I'm not Kevin Windham smooth by any means.Ive been riding for three years and in DH I just ran through stuff too.The more aggressive it all is the more fun I have and more comfortable I am.:D

I over jump stuff occasionally especially if its a new obstacle.But sometimes it's faster to flat land some stuff.But often it's hard to walk for a couple days after.

I don't want to piss any body off localy but i'm not giving somebody 600-700 bucks too work on my stuff who just told me what I want isn't possible.There are $6000 works kits out there but I can't believe nobody can do this for a normal amout of money. Sorry for the long windedness.Thanks

Send your stuff to Factory Connection and they will do what ever you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm about tired of people "mechanics"telling me what I SHOULD like in my bike set up.:worthy: Ive always had this problem.When I raced DH Mtn bikes and now with MX .

I'm probably too sensetive to my bike setup.And I'm not one of these guys who can ride any bike they pickup like a bat outta hell(I wish I could).That all said--I ride an 08 kxf 450f ,38 ,vet int,185 lbs,I've got the next set stiffer springs in the forks and +15cc?on the oil,13 out on compression,14 out on rebound.My shock is pretty much stock

My issue is the I always want more bottom-It feels pretty good now,I could go a little stiffer over all.But any local suspension guy first tells me that I shouldn't want anything stiffer.

I'm not Kevin Windham smooth by any means.Ive been riding for three years and in DH I just ran through stuff too.The more aggressive it all is the more fun I have and more comfortable I am.:ride:

I over jump stuff occasionally especially if its a new obstacle.But sometimes it's faster to flat land some stuff.But often it's hard to walk for a couple days after.

I don't want to piss any body off localy but i'm not giving somebody 600-700 bucks too work on my stuff who just told me what I want isn't possible.There are $6000 works kits out there but I can't believe nobody can do this for a normal amout of money. Sorry for the long windedness.Thanks

Did you ask a question? :D:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you also need to be aware the forks are setup pretty good, but the shock is very soft on valving, you probably crave a stiffer valving setup more than any more stiffness in the springs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good tuner will listen to what you are requesting and build the suspension using your input as a basis. If you want a slightly stiffer set up with good bottoming resistance, that's a reasonable request.

There's no reason to send your suspension out of the state. However, I'm not sure that you've talked to ALL the "local tuners".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#101,et, Speedworld and Motoland pretty much.Thanks for the replys.I am going to try one more thing here locally before I call Smart.

We are going up too 345 ccs on the fork oil height.And I guess trying a stiffer spring in the rear.Although I'm not completley sold on the rear spring idea.I was told my rebound in the rear is too slow and that would cause it to pack up in rough stuff(8 out)and cause bottoming.I 've tried it @10-12 and it just pitches me forward too much sometimes and i feel awkward.I haven't really played around at all with the HS comp.cause i've been thouroughly confused over the course of time on what it actually does and dosent.Some of these things just shouldn;t be subject to opinion. That being said--feel free

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I ask why you went to stiffer fork springs in the first place? At your weight, the stock springs should be fine. What are your sag numbers on the shock? (rider/static). If the numbers are correct, don't change the spring.

Remember, you shouldn't go to stiffer springs to attempt to cure a bottoming issue. The springs don't controll the damping, the damping controls the springs. Obviously, if you're way too heavy or way too light for the stock springs, then they need changing. The springs are there primarily to hold you and the bike up at the proper attitude so the machine handles properly.

So, having said that, if you're bottoming the suspension, it's a damping issue.

Especially the KX's. They need more lo-speed damping. You can help it with the adjusters, (and oil height) but that won't cure a bottoming issue, either. It sounds to me like you need a revalve. The compression valving on those shocks is too light.

Also, having your rebound set at 8 out will not cause a bottoming issue. If anything, it's going to make the shock stiffer due to the crossover effect of the bleed circuit. As far as your hi-speed adjuster, the name can be a little confusing. It doesn't really affect the true "hi-speed" damping. It's more of an extension of the lo-speed adjuster. Where you'll feel it's effects most are on jump faces. The rear of the bike won't squat as much in that situation with the adjuster turned in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also, you mentioned turning out the rebound makes the rear kick too much. SO do this next time out. Run the rebound at 12-14out, but the compression 4-6 clicks in from where your at now. Id bet money turning the rebound out is making it kick because the compression is too soft in doing soo....meaning the shock bottoming out and then continueing to transfer energy into you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres my 2cents. Going with a stiffer spring to achieve what you are craving may work. But its the wrong way to go about it. Your sprigs are for the weight of the bike and its rider.

What you need is to get the spring rates correct for your weight first then set the valving to your liking. A good suspension tech can do that for you. It may take a couple tries. Thats why a local guy will help. Finding him may be the tough part.

Not to ramble on about myself, but i have been doing suspension for quite awhile. I am constanlty tweeking with bikes. As people change and bikes do too, it has to change. What you like now may change as you improve. When i first got into this world of tuning i rode alot and did most of the testing for my shop. As i got more comfortable on the bike, i needed stiffer settings as i got faster. But now i dont ride as much and had to soften it up a bit.

Its up to you what you want. It can be found. But remember....it takes time to find your setting perfectly. And most likely you will change as the bike changes too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can I ask why you went to stiffer fork springs in the first place? At your weight, the stock springs should be fine. What are your sag numbers on the shock? (rider/static). If the numbers are correct, don't change the spring.

----I change them and addd some fork oil cause I liked the way the fork worked from stock I just wanted them stiffer all the way through ,andwanted some more bottom.I really like them now just want more bottom.All sag numbers add up too.---

Remember, you shouldn't go to stiffer springs to attempt to cure a bottoming issue. The springs don't controll the damping, the damping controls the springs. Obviously, if you're way too heavy or way too light for the stock springs, then they need changing. The springs are there primarily to hold you and the bike up at the proper attitude so the machine handles properly.

So, having said that, if you're bottoming the suspension, it's a damping issue.

Especially the KX's. They need more lo-speed damping. You can help it with the adjusters, (and oil height) but that won't cure a bottoming issue, either. It sounds to me like you need a revalve. The compression valving on those shocks is too light.I decided to do a rear revalve instead of the spring,its not costing much more

Also, having your rebound set at 8 out will not cause a bottoming issue. If anything, it's going to make the shock stiffer due to the crossover effect of the bleed circuit. As far as your hi-speed adjuster, the name can be a little confusing. It doesn't really affect the true "hi-speed" damping. It's more of an extension of the lo-speed adjuster. Where you'll feel it's effects most are on jump faces. The rear of the bike won't squat as much in that situation with the adjuster turned in.

See.......this is why I don't want to know.It does what it does until it dosen't anymore.At that point,it does the other thing that it's not suppose to and sometimes helps in doing the opposite thing.👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you need to get the damping sorted, the kxf is know to have a bad setup, it uses all 0.15mm face shims on the compression stack, all other bikes use 0.2s which are much stiffer, thats the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See.......this is why I don't want to know.It does what it does until it dosen't anymore.At that point,it does the other thing that it's not suppose to and sometimes helps in doing the opposite thing.:worthy:

I wouldn't touch your "stuff" with a ten foot pole...you will NEVER be satisfied...👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look rsk1 has it right about springs. You need a valving change to stiffin it up. More low speed and an open high speed. This will allow the suspension to stay up in the stroke and still be able to soak up the quick hits. OEM suspension fits maybe 10% of the riders out there. I went through the exact same thing as you did until I took matters into my own hands and learned how to re-valve. It is simple and once you get an good understanding of what changes will effect what you will be on your way. I sent my suspension out 8x and got a mush bucket back every time. Too light of springs etc... I did a write up that is a sticky now. great info. should really help. You can do the $400.00+ job for a lot cheaper. Once you get good at it you can be in and out in less than an hour front and rear. Check this link...

Showa DIY

The principal for valving applies for both SHOWA and KYB.

Get in touch with kelstr. He is in Chandler, Az. Kelly is on the board as "kelstr" and he is great and he can get you going in the right direction and he will LISTEN to you. Any of the aftermarket places FC, MB1, MX-Tech etc....will send you back a mush bucket and you'll really be unhappy. A local guy that know his stuff would be much better for you. Pro Circuit is know to valve on the stiff side compared to the others.

If you have questions PM me would be happy to help.

theDogger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ive heard enzo does a good setup if you like it stiff as well.He owns a 08 kxf 450 so knows the bike as well as anyone on this planet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ive heard enzo does a good setup if you like it stiff as well.He owns a 08 kxf 450 so knows the bike as well as anyone on this planet.

$$$$$$$$

my personal aftermarket experience was a bad one from the one of the companies listed by dogger.

After tearing into the suspension to see what they did, it was apparent the suspension was much softer all around, and quite frankly instead of feeling soft, felt harsh because it blew through the stroke.

Sadly for me, while the company said if i wasn't happy they would fix it, it never got fixed.

Just learn as much as you can, start understanding what changes do what, and maybe you will realize why you like certain settings.

For example, on a bike I had two years ago, after coming back of a 1 year and a half hiatus from major injury, I loved the suspension stock.

But as I got back up to pace, it starting kicking in the rear really bad. I, at the time, thought more rebound damping was necessary, and starting cranking it in, only to find the rear harsh and still kicking. I ended up with the rebound all the way in the compression all the way out (soft) and liked that set up. Turns out, what I really wanted, and what that bike has now, is much more compression damping, with the rebound around 10 clicks out. The bike was too soft in the rear, which made it bottom on obstacles and thus kick. Adding rebound damping added the compression damping I needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any of the aftermarket places FC, MB1, MX-Tech etc....will send you back a mush bucket and you'll really be unhappy. A local guy that know his stuff would be much better for you. Pro Circuit is know to valve on the stiff side compared to the others.

Well, I have to disagree with that blanket statement - especially as it refers to me (Palo Verde / MX-Tech). I consider myself a "local guy who really knows his stuff". As do the majority of my customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't touch your "stuff" with a ten foot pole...you will NEVER be satisfied...👍
Does your "pole"not have a linkage either?.I didn't think so.So you must be EASILY satisfied.

Just because I know what i want and can describe it,I shouldn't have to know the internals of suspension myself to get it.If got to much s**t I'm already good at.Motors and suspension ain't on the list.And I already know my limits,patience and boredom levels to know that I don't need another project to devote in ordinate amounts of time to.

I've already mentioned i'm sensetive to my bike setup and maybe even "picky"But it's my bike ,my money,my time and my need to be completly comfortable on the bike so i can ride to the edge of my ability.

Maybe too many people are too easily placated by what their mechanics tell them that they want.And don't get what THEY want.

EVERY job i do for a customer is a custom one off project .And the pickier ,the better----not unreasonable---.i f they know what they want ,it's a challenge I look forward too.if they don't, I give them a design that'll challenge me to make it.

But what really sucks now,is I had all my stuff packaged up to send to you (Drats!!)I guess working with only the "easy" customers is a good sign of confidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I have to disagree with that blanket statement - especially as it refers to me (Palo Verde / MX-Tech). I consider myself a "local guy who really knows his stuff". As do the majority of my customers.

Hey nothing personal. Just have talked to a lot of people and have seen a lot of stuff. Word on the street is that MX-Tech is great for woods/trail pumpkins. Not hard core MX.

Few guys that I know who have sent there stuff in said that it was way to soft. Esp. with the tapered MV stack that I have seen on these setup from MX-Tech

Not trying to bash you. But like anything else people/places get reputations. Like the hot girl in high school everyone try's to get to know!👍

theDogger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...