Another Comparison - DR-Z 400 vs. WR250R

[USMCsilver]

Break it down for me. Power for power, street vs. road.

Have any of y'all had experiance with both?

It's really down to either of these. The FI of the Yammi appeals to me a lot, as well as the Yamaha name (owned over 7 from quads, to d/s, to superbike).

I just don't know what to expect from these d/s bikes.

My old XT225 left a lot to be desired.

I've ridden a KX500 in the past, and OMG -- that's a superbeast. I know that no d/s out there can compete w/ such a monster, but I'd really like some honest comparison b/t Suzuki's 400 and Yammi's WRR.

Thanks! ?

[YamaLink]

Would it be fair to say you like gobs of arm stretching power ala the KX500? While the WR250R/X is fun beyond belief, there's no replacement for displacement; the DRZ with a 436 kit is the king daddy rager of mid-sized dualsports!

If I was doing mainly paved I would not hesitate to go DRZ.

If I was doing lots of back-country and dirt roads and trails through the twisties, it'd be the WR (not saying the DRZ couldn't handle it).

Commuting short distance I'd be on the blue bike.

Highway....DRZ. I think you see where I'm getting at.

Truly a win-win situation.

PS: Big thread about the two: https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=667909

[USMCsilver]

Did you see my XT225 vs. WR250 thread below? That's the jist of my situation.

I've noticed Honda and Kawa both have smaller CC bikes, but none appeal to me as much as these two do.

My dirt experiance is limited as far as two wheels go since I did mostly quads as a youth, so I don't "need" enduro type strenght from a dual-sport, but I kinda like the idea to know it is there.

Also, I'm not a stunter by any means, but it was fun to ride a 90mph wheelie on my CBR1000RR for just a small stretch. If I get one of these dual-sports, I want to know what sort of tire-totin' ability they have. Not because I want to ride wheelies, but because it is a good indicator of power. On my old XT225, I actually tried to ride one in the front yard just because I knew it was FAR from being able to power one up. Pop the clutch in first, and hold on.

Can the Suzuki or Yammi actually do a power wheelie in any of the gears? Again, I'm not a hooligan, I just want to estimate power from either bike. I wish more dealers were friendlier about test rides, so I could at least get a slight guage for myself, but from what I've read in most forums, they oftentimes frown upon them. I've never asked for one as I've never had to. I've always gone sportbike or w/ a private seller -- so in either regards, you know what you're getting.

[SPUTTER]

My WRR replaces an 04 DRZ400S I rode for about 3 years. I did the airbox and jetting mods on the DRZ, everything else was stock, except for a corbin seat.

The DRZ has more torque across the board, but it is essentially not a powerful bike IMO. I'm talking about a california model, but I believe all state models are the same package now.

Here's my perspective:

Both have difficultly lifting the front wheel unless you unload the front end. Bummer. It is easier to lift the front end of the WRR off-road once the engine is up to mid rpm's. You kind of need to ride it like an overweight 125 then it works, until you hit the turn, LOL.?

The WR is actually smoother at highway speeds, the six speed wide ratio gearbox gives it an advantage. Unless you gear up the DRZ it cannot run comfortably at over 65 or so. If you gear it up, first gear is too tall for off-road work.

The WRR vibrates less. I replaced the stock bars on the DRZ with aluminum just to help vibration to the hands. I didn't need to do that with the WRR.

Off-road the WRR is easier to maneuver and has a much lower center of gravity - although it actually less than 20 pounds lighter, it feels 50 lbs lighter.

The WRR is much more fun to ride...anywhere.

The big displacement would be an advantage at altitude or for accelleration up to about 60 mph.

No contest for me, stock units, the WRR is a better all round bike at half the displacement.

[USMCsilver]

Thank you Sputter. As far as engine mods go, I'm ingnorant w/ that stuff. Give me a firearm, and I can do whatever in the world you want me to with it, but give me an engine, and I stumble to change the oil.

The Yamaha seems to really be seeking the win. I hate to buy this damned thing and see a 450 arise next year; I'm sure they'll do it w/ the competition out there, but I don't want to wait. I wouldn't mind a junker for the year, but I have an image to uphold, you know? LOL!

Anyway, I appreciate it!

Folks, don't by shy!

[JasonfromMN]

Thank you Sputter. As far as engine mods go, I'm ingnorant w/ that stuff. Give me a firearm, and I can do whatever in the world you want me to with it, but give me an engine, and I stumble to change the oil.

The Yamaha seems to really be seeking the win. I hate to buy this damned thing and see a 450 arise next year; I'm sure they'll do it w/ the competition out there, but I don't want to wait. I wouldn't mind a junker for the year, but I have an image to uphold, you know? LOL!

Anyway, I appreciate it!

Folks, don't by shy!

I have to agree with Sputter on nearly everything. My WRR is replacing a 2001 DRZ400s. My DRZ had Renthal Fatbars, geared way down(I spent most of my time on dirt) and full knobies. My WRR is 1T less on the front sprocket with full knobies. From what I remember of my DRZ, I could pull a wheelie over water holes easier than I can on my WRR. But my WRR seems to have better power and for longer in the upper rpm. So the power is a catch 22. Do you want it low or high?

For the rest of the bike, Im more pleased with the WRR. I loved riding my DRZ, but really had an issue with the suspension. My WRR is taking a little while to get dialed in, but with Sputters help and others its getting dialed in pretty good. At the end of the day for me was the WRR's looks and high tech- alum frame, F.I. ect that brought me to the blue side.

[AintSkeerd]

If you don't need the manufacturer financing, why not find a nice used WR450f with a plate?

[USMCsilver]

If you don't need the manufacturer financing, why not find a nice used WR450f with a plate?

Can this be done? Can most 4-stroke enduro's be converted and tagged? Does it have to succumb to a DMV inspection, or what?

I mentioned it in the other thread, but not this one -- I'm 5'8 and 220# (stocky, not fat as hell ?). Touching is a concern. If I can get toes down, I'll be fine.

[derangedhermit]

From what I think I hear you saying, I don't think you will own either one for long (as your only bike). I think you won't be happy until you have something with 50+ hp available.

For example, both of these two struggle to even go 90 mph.

And I think you'll be happier with a lower bike.

Just throwing something out there:)

/dh

[derangedhermit]

Can this be done? Can most 4-stroke enduro's be converted and tagged? Does it have to succumb to a DMV inspection, or what?

Depends on the state. Talk to your dealer guys, they will know. If you can do it, it sounds to me like you'll like a 450 better than either of these.

For "a little more money", a KTM 690 Enduro might be just the thing:D

[USMCsilver]

From what I think I hear you saying, I don't think you will own either one for long (as your only bike). I think you won't be happy until you have something with 50+ hp available.

For example, both of these two struggle to even go 90 mph.

And I think you'll be happier with a lower bike.

Just throwing something out there:)

/dh

I'll be happy. This is a compromise. I scare myself. I know no limits. On my litrebike, I was just stupid at times. I have a kid on the way and responsibilities, and I just don't know when to stop at times. I like to be safe, but stupid comes too easily when the power is there. I'm trying to combat fuel prices and have some fun at the same time. I may pick up a used quad for my wife so we can play together... 90mph is fast enough these days; but power is fun, too.

Depends on the state. Talk to your dealer guys, they will know. If you can do it, it sounds to me like you'll like a 450 better than either of these.

For "a little more money", a KTM 690 Enduro might be just the thing:D

I'll ask tomorrow. Going to look at some Yamaha's and Suzuki's tomorrow. I see a "local" dealer has the WR250X for $5400. If I can find a competitor with the WRR for somewhere in stock, I would think I could get it for less than that if I threaten to take my money elsewhere.

As far as the KTM goes; I assume it is huge. Remember my height. Also, money is somewhat of a concern. I want to save money on gas, and purchasing a ~$6000 dual-sport to do so is somewhat of a stretch of the imagination. Pushing the price over that seems very counterproductive, ya know? ?

[scottmac]

These guys are located in West Virginia and are building

DS bikes from full 450 dirtbikes.

http://dualsportarmory.com/default.aspx

Might be worth giving them a shout to see if they

can do something street legal for you in South Carolina.

[Pizoozoo]

I'm also replacing a DRZ400S with my WRR. I think the WRR is more fun all around. Both have plenty of power but I don't care what the top speeds are because I never go that fast anyway. I've also never ridden any 'monster' bikes, only dual-sports so I don't really know what power is.

The overall 'fit and finish' of the WRR is also much higher in my opinion. The parts fit together very nicely and securely with much attention paid to detail. I like to pay attention to this little stuff anyway.

I did the 3x3, rejetted and removed all the smog stuff off the DRZ and I have now removed the smog and air-box solenoid from the WRR. But I'm mostly into just riding the bikes and not modding them too much. The power for both is similar but the DRZ has a little more and a lot more low RPM torque. I did lots of off road with the DRZ and even though it's pretty heavy I never had any problems managing it off road. The WRR feels much lighter and I'm sure it will off road too.

With that all said, you'll have fun with which ever one you end up getting. I know it's all subjective and it's all been said before. This is just my partial take. Congrats for whichever one you get! -Piz

[Motard-Menace]

I'll throw my 2 cents in even if its not wanted.........?

I just got a WRX in the garage and purchased it for some of the same reasons you have listed. I wanted something inexpensive and economical yet could be ridden in numerous situations; ie pavement, light track duty, fire roads and some dirt if needed. (I have a hunch Forrest at Wheeling will be producing dirt wheel kits for the X soon) Anyway so far I am not disappointed with the little WR, it is a great little bike that puts a smile on your face everytime you ride it. Its not fast and it never will be but when ridden properly it is a ball of fire. So easy to throw this thing around its almost scary. Just so you know I have over 17 years of riding experience and most recently in the garage was a Ducati HyperMotard and a Ducati 1098 which are both magnificent bikes and if the $$$$$ supply was endless I would still have them along with the WR but for now the WR fits the bill and no regrets here. Can't speak to the DRZ but I also thought about going that route for a few hundred bones more but the F.I. looks and superior technology of the WR won out. Goodluck with your decision.

[Jäger]

Give me a firearm, and I can do whatever in the world you want me to with it

Really? So... if I asked you to lap out the ball seat, how would you go about it?

The Yamaha seems to really be seeking the win. I hate to buy this damned thing and see a 450 arise next year; I'm sure they'll do it w/ the competition out there, but I don't want to wait. I wouldn't mind a junker for the year, but I have an image to uphold, you know? LOL!

Anyway, I appreciate it!

Folks, don't by shy!

I think you need to decide what will make you happy, not which is the better bike. You appear to be shopping for a bike that doesn't exist.

The 250R is not and never will be a 450. It wasn't intended to be. It was aimed at a specific gap in available bikes for people who didn't want or see a need for a 450, but wanted something nimble and capable on both the road and the street, with good gas milage and low TCO costs - and more than capable of being fun. When Yami does bring out their 400 version of this bike, I'm pretty sure the first thing we'll be hearing is squeals that it is way too heavy, assuming they apply the same design philosophy they used with the 250R.

If you won't be happy unless there's all sorts of raw power on tap, then you'll never really be satisfied with either of these bikes in my opinion, and there are other choices out there that will eat both of these bikes for lunch. On the other hand, they cost a lot more, are more expensive to run, require much more wrenching, and don't do the all-around thing as well as the 250R does (my opinion only, of course, and I also haven't ridden all the choices out there).

So, given your checklist:

Would prefer to avoid wrenching as much as possible? Check

Want to combat fuel prices? Check

Manageable purchase price? Check

and...

Kid on the way and responsibilities? Well, this bike is a good fit for an expectant father about to start seeing what the bills and free time are like when there's little ones in the house.

And if I might digress briefly from the issue of motorcycles to address life in general, now might be a good time to take a long walk one day and assess whether it is time to quit being stupid in search of fun. I did the special forces thing, jumped out of airplanes, blah, blah, blah, so I understand thrills and chills. However, there's a big difference between doing whatever floats your boat when it's only you that pays the price, and when there's a good woman and kid at home that depend on you both financially and emotionally as their husband/dad. I've also done enough NOK notifications as a cop to see first hand the price they pay when Dad doesn't come home, and it's bad enough when that was unavoidable, but truly tragic when it was a result of carelessness and/or stupidity. So if your life really won't be full unless you continue to know no limits, a need to be stupid and scare yourself, etc, at least make sure you have an iron clad insurance policy in place to care for them should you end up drawing the black marble sometime and end up taking the long dirt nap or living as a quad.

Nobody likes to think of those things while they're out having a blast and the adrenelin is flowing, but bad things happen to good people all the time.

[derangedhermit]

[...]

Kid on the way and responsibilities? Well, this bike is a good fit for an expectant father about to start seeing what the bills and free time are like when there's little ones in the house.

And if I might digress briefly from the issue of motorcycles to address life in general, now might be a good time to take a long walk one day and assess whether it is time to quit being stupid in search of fun. I did the special forces thing, jumped out of airplanes, blah, blah, blah, so I understand thrills and chills. However, there's a big difference between doing whatever floats your boat when it's only you that pays the price, and when there's a good woman and kid at home that depend on you both financially and emotionally as their husband/dad. I've also done enough NOK notifications as a cop to see first hand the price they pay when Dad doesn't come home, and it's bad enough when that was unavoidable, but truly tragic when it was a result of carelessness and/or stupidity. So if your life really won't be full unless you continue to know no limits, a need to be stupid and scare yourself, etc, at least make sure you have an iron clad insurance policy in place to care for them should you end up drawing the black marble sometime and end up taking the long dirt nap or living as a quad.

Nobody likes to think of those things while they're out having a blast and the adrenelin is flowing, but bad things happen to good people all the time.

+ about a million. I wasn't goin to wade into these waters, but I'm glad Jäger did.

My decision was to not own a bike when I had kids between 0-20. Insurance money can't replace a Dad, and most of my "spare time" had better uses than riding when there is a child who needs raisin'. And I wouldn't have missed it for anything.

The best advice I can give, with "one on the way", is to not own or ride a motorcycle until you have a different opinion of how well you can balance risk vs responsibility. Kudos for recognizing and stating you have something to sort out, and taking some action towards doing that.?

Read some posts by Zadok about him and his sons - maybe that's a good way to reintroduce riding into the family at a good time.

[djchan]

Have a DRZ400E (offroad model) and have ridden the WRR. Handsdown the 400E has way more power and torque and though it weighs 20-30 lbs less than the WRR - doesn't feel like it offroad. Suspension - WRR - definitely. Smooth engine at speed - WRR. All in all the WRR's a better match for me but I can't help but think that a legal 6-speed DRZ400E would rule the dualsport world for a few years. Clearly Suzuki doesn't listen to me.

[USMCsilver]

Ahh, the Kawasaki KLX250S...

I bought one today. I didn't really review it, but it was about my only option (well, kinda).

I'm 5'8, 220# (stocky). The Honda 230 was dinky and the 650 was HUGE. The Yamaha WR250R was a bit too tall and my knees were too low to feel comfortable. There was no Suzuki to be found w/in many miles. So, I settled for the KLX250S.

Impressions -- bleh. I mean, it will do what I bought it for -- save fuel on my 14 mile round-trip commute. It will bounce around some trails just fine. Will it power-wheelie, not no, but HELL NO! It has no umph. At about, 6k revs and you're at 60mph. I'm having to take it easy, but I had it to 65 and it felt fine. Redline is at 10.5.

I used to own an '02 Yamaha XT225 dual-sport. Honestly, there doesn't seem to be much difference at all b/t the two minus the fact that the KLX is a tad higher and the suspension is better. Overall, the bike seems to be built better and the digital tach and speedo is quite nice. I'm not a fan of the little "bag" built onto the rear fender; I liked Yamaha's frame mounted "toolbox" better and thought it was a much smarter design. I'm totally ignorant as to this thing because I didn't even research it before I bought it, but again, it was a compromise due to height/price/availability. I hope to find some accessories for the thing and slowly do some mods to help it out the most I can.

Two last things --

Handlebar vibrations! Yuck! I believe heavier bars will fix this. Is that true? Never replaced bars before.

Hard seat! Damn! I did 40 miles today from the dealer to the house and my ass hurt like there was no tomorrow. New seat sources? Corbin maybe?

That's it; there's my review. I did find that I can get a Dynojet kit and a full exhaust and hack the factory airbox lid and get some more power. People claim "it's a whole new bike" after those mods, so we'll see...

[SPUTTER]

If you keep it long term you can get a big bore kit installed for a reasonable amount. It's a pretty common mod for that bike -

Any aluminum bars will help a lot with that hand vibration. You can just get the same bend in aluminum - a bolt on job plus a new grip for the left side.

These small bore 4 strokes do noticeably improve power-wise with some break-in time. Have fun!

I used to mountain bike a lot. To keep my butt from being overly painful I bought an ergo seat - one with a hole in the center to keep pressure off the soft tissue. I apply the same principle to the narrower seats of dual sport bikes. I take off the seat cover and cut a V slot about 2 inches wide by in inch or so deep down the center of the foam. The length is about 24 inches and ends about 8 inches from the back of the seat end. It really helps with the soft tissue and tailbone. The seat cover is just stapled on to a plastic base. A tip; heat the plastic base with a hair dryer and the new staples will go in much easier.

[USMCsilver]

Thanks Sputter!

I must say, I am actually much more impressed now.

I went out trail riding with a friend today who has a new KLX300 and had a damned good time! I didn't pay much attention to the tach, but I tried not to over-rev. Most time was spent in 2nd gear with some into 3rd; barely saw 4th. Having said that -- the bike is a HOOT! Much more nimble when off the pavement and very easy to handle. I've been off a bike for about a year, so I took it easy, but really enjoyed myself.

You know, the bike seems like it has double the acceleration and power when you're on a trail that a 4-wheeler would squeeze down. Things come much faster that way. Fooling myself w/ a different perception of things seems to work.

Overall, I'm not as "disappointed" as I initially thought I was. The bike's fun -- simply put. I think I'll actually be closer to satisfied when I do a few mods.