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Help a short legged and heavy fellow out please

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Hi, I am new here and wonder if anyone can help.

I may be anatomically deformed - I am quite short (especially for my weight) and have short legs. I have a 2003 200 EXC and enjoy riding enduro/harescramble type stuff, not really MX (although we play after work just to get the fitness up). I have been on a few rides with guys that really know what they are doing (the types of guys who tend to win races) and they have all told me that I need to turn my suspension/preload down as I tend to high-side quite easily. I recently serviced my front forks and the suspension works brilliantly now, compared to what i was used to before (one fork leaking and the other not); this made me decide to set the bike's suspension to standard. So I did the whole Static vs Dynamic sag setup according to the manual (it made the bike WAY taller for me). I've heard that one can cut the seat/subframe to lower your seated position, but is there anything less drastic that can be done?

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X bushing? Sorry - new to all this, and I'm in South Africa - never heard of Synergy, and links to websites or threads available?

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X bushing? Sorry - new to all this, and I'm in South Africa - never heard of Synergy, and links to websites or threads available?

Synergy X-Bushing

If you use the X-bushing it will lower the rear by changing the angle of the shock mounting position back slightly -lengthening the distance from the swing arm pivot and the lower shock mount axial position. This will also change the leverage on the spring slightly. If you raise your fork legs in the tripple clamps to balence the front and the back this would be a very cheap way of lowering the bike...

You could also get the suspension proffesionally lowered, or shave the seat. I would avoid altering the subframe with all these other options.

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they have all told me that I need to turn my suspension/preload down as I tend to high-side quite easily.

So I did the whole Static vs Dynamic sag setup according to the manual (it made the bike WAY taller for me).

Their suggestion, the way you described it, is the opposite of what you did-based on your discription... But you said you noticed an improvement- which could be because you now have equal level's of fork oil in your tubes as well.

as far as how to set up your Sag- the "golden Rule" is the common standard way to set it up- I don't even know the manual's specs...

Here's a Dwight (Vinduro) quote:

The "GOLDEN RULE" is extremely important on the 2003-2004 models. First of all you need to understand that the shock has a topout spring which compresses if you have too much preload on the shock spring. This will cause the shock to vary in length. So check all your numbers with every adjustment. Start with 45-50 mm static sag. Any more than this and you will have collapsed the topout spring rendering it useless and your bike will be riding stinkbug because your overall shock length will be too long. If you have the correct spring rate your rider sag will be about 115mm ( + - 5mm ) . I weigh 176lbs and used a 9.2kg shock spring on mine. Very plush and controlled. You will have your rebound set at about 14-15 clicks out from full in. Compression about 3-5clicks in from full out. Set your fork sag at about 75-80mm rider sag. IF you weigh more than 180 or so lbs then go up on your fork spring rate.

Hope this helps,

DR

And Here's a KTMlew Quote: which is a simular but different way to set them up and is also proven:

1. Put bike on stand. Measure from axle to a point on rear fender basically straight above axle. Mark fender for future reference. Write measuement down.

2. Loosen preload ring and spin spring until it rattles.

3. Measure length of spring, should be real close to 250mm.

4. Turn preload ring 5 full turns from contact to preload spring.

5. Measure spring, you want it to be about 245mm, OK?

If spring doesn't get shorter when you tighten the ring, the earth has spun off it's axis, so your sag is insignificant.

6. If nec, adjust preload to get spring to 245 or so and set on floor.

7. Measure static sag. Should be around 40mm +/- 3mm.

8. If static is around 40mm (say 37-43) check rider sag in full gear. If it's not add or remove preload to get in the window. Once at 40mm'ish rider sag should be around 110-115mm if spring is correct for your weight.

I prefer on KTM"s to set static to an absolute number and then measure rider sag. It should be obvious to anyone if you set the static to X number and get on the bike and the fender is laying on the tire, like when MackMack gets on, you are to fat for the spring. If the bike barely moves when you get on the spring is too stiff, right?

Once you get a spring that gets you between the numbers (35-45 static/100-120 rider) then you tune the static 5mm or so either way to get the steering to suit your riding style

Read them through- both will add to your understanding, and pick one that makes more sence to you-👍

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not "F", need the "X" to lower, F is regular replacement

Thanks Mike:thumbsup: - yea I had a brain fart- the link was good though

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" Set your fork sag at about 75-80mm rider sag."

How do you set your fork sag ?

Thanks in advance ,

Robert

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Their suggestion, the way you described it, is the opposite of what you did-based on your discription... But you said you noticed an improvement- which could be because you now have equal level's of fork oil in your tubes as well.

as far as how to set up your Sag- the "golden Rule" is the common standard way to set it up- I don't even know the manual's specs...

Here's a Dwight (Vinduro) quote:

The "GOLDEN RULE" is extremely important on the 2003-2004 models. First of all you need to understand that the shock has a topout spring which compresses if you have too much preload on the shock spring. This will cause the shock to vary in length. So check all your numbers with every adjustment. Start with 45-50 mm static sag. Any more than this and you will have collapsed the topout spring rendering it useless and your bike will be riding stinkbug because your overall shock length will be too long. If you have the correct spring rate your rider sag will be about 115mm ( + - 5mm ) . I weigh 176lbs and used a 9.2kg shock spring on mine. Very plush and controlled. You will have your rebound set at about 14-15 clicks out from full in. Compression about 3-5clicks in from full out. Set your fork sag at about 75-80mm rider sag. IF you weigh more than 180 or so lbs then go up on your fork spring rate.

Hope this helps,

DR

And Here's a KTMlew Quote: which is a simular but different way to set them up and is also proven:

1. Put bike on stand. Measure from axle to a point on rear fender basically straight above axle. Mark fender for future reference. Write measuement down.

2. Loosen preload ring and spin spring until it rattles.

3. Measure length of spring, should be real close to 250mm.

4. Turn preload ring 5 full turns from contact to preload spring.

5. Measure spring, you want it to be about 245mm, OK?

If spring doesn't get shorter when you tighten the ring, the earth has spun off it's axis, so your sag is insignificant.

6. If nec, adjust preload to get spring to 245 or so and set on floor.

7. Measure static sag. Should be around 40mm +/- 3mm.

8. If static is around 40mm (say 37-43) check rider sag in full gear. If it's not add or remove preload to get in the window. Once at 40mm'ish rider sag should be around 110-115mm if spring is correct for your weight.

I prefer on KTM"s to set static to an absolute number and then measure rider sag. It should be obvious to anyone if you set the static to X number and get on the bike and the fender is laying on the tire, like when MackMack gets on, you are to fat for the spring. If the bike barely moves when you get on the spring is too stiff, right?

Once you get a spring that gets you between the numbers (35-45 static/100-120 rider) then you tune the static 5mm or so either way to get the steering to suit your riding style

Read them through- both will add to your understanding, and pick one that makes more sence to you-👍

Thanks DRZnXJnWI, shedding some light there! I woulda though that the manual isnt the greatest help but its all I had untill now - it seems that the manual is focused on a safe comfortable bike for riding on dirt roads. The original spec says that it should be 35mm (+- 2mm) static sag with 90 to 105mm dynamic/rider sag.

As you said, I did do the opposite from what I was told by my friends because I decided to try what the manual says to try and get my rear suspension to perform nicely. When I said there was an improvement I meant that it was due to the front forks working as a unit - they werent washing or dipping to one side (as you mentioned), this influenced my decision to get the rear working well. I set the forks 10mm lower (they are now protruding 10mm above the top triple clamp, the difference is also noticeable.

The bike susp .setup now is as close to the manual as I can get it with the current spring (apart from the fact that the front forks have a large preload value as I didnt have my manual with me when I changed the seals - should change that to OEM spec soon as it wont take long). The static sag is 35mm, dynamic is 85 (not quite the 90 that the manual suggests); this seems a far cry from either one of your quotes. I havent ridden the bike yet with this setup as I have a knee injury from the day I rode my bike after servicing the front forks :worthy:

I will try to get it to the setup as per your description(s) above and see how it feels. I weigh about 190 pounds an am only 176cm tall (5'10"). I have the feeling that perhaps I could get the sag right without changing the spring, but the height will still be a problem.

I assume that the common suggestion is to keep the suspension performing well by setting it to the recommended values and if its too high then changing the heim (very sweet looking product btw) or some other measures (seat trimming etc).

Some more questions though: If i ride in the "hills" where I need to reach the ground often (as opposed to MX), wouldnt it be better to have the bike lower and to turn my preload up slightly assuming that I dont use the f/x-bushing? (ie: a compromise).

Also, how do you know when the front and rear suspension are set correctly with respect to one another?

Sorry about the lengthy/confusing post.....

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as a general statement about the KTM rear linkless susp, it needs to have the right spring for your weight ir it wont work right, its not as forgiving as a linkage rear. Preload wont do it, it will just be harsh.

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" Set your fork sag at about 75-80mm rider sag."

How do you set your fork sag ?

Thanks in advance ,

Robert

Its more like checking than adjusting though your fork sag is changed by 2 things fork preload and spring rate. Some WP forks have externally adjustable preload, and some use spacers. The point is to get close to those numbers- and if its off get a heavier or lighter spring.

as Mike suggested- its basically the same for the rear- you need the right spring reguardless of how much you can adjust the preload- because the static sag is what is is more important the rider sag is how you determine how far off your springs are.... you have to accomplish both goals without screwing the other up.

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I will try to get it to the setup as per your description(s) above and see how it feels. I weigh about 190 pounds an am only 176cm tall (5'10"). I have the feeling that perhaps I could get the sag right without changing the spring, but the height will still be a problem.

I may be anatomically deformed - I am quite short (especially for my weight) and have short legs.

5'10:excuseme: your a giant compared to me- I am 5'06" 210lbs SO I may be the one that is I may be anatomically deformed :busted: damb I thought I was helpen out a fellow troll- your on your own now...:worthy:

I assume that the common suggestion is to keep the suspension performing well by setting it to the recommended values and if its too high then changing the heim (very sweet looking product btw) or some other measures (seat trimming etc).

Right get things set up as prescribed- right now it looks like you could increase your static sag (decrease preload) and your numbers will improve for your rider sag which will also lower your rear of the bike...

Some more questions though: If i ride in the "hills" where I need to reach the ground often (as opposed to MX), wouldnt it be better to have the bike lower and to turn my preload up slightly assuming that I dont use the f/x-bushing? (ie: a compromise).

If you "turn up" preload (sounds like increase) the rear will come up- if you decreas preload the rear will come down. maybe you meant where the preload collar ends up- up or down on the shock- but that's confusing...

.

Also, how do you know when the front and rear suspension are set correctly with respect to one another?

Sorry about the lengthy/confusing post.....

if you follow the suggested sag settings it should feel balenced- stable yet agile- if you don't it will feel like crap- ride a bike that is set up correctly for a guy of simular weight and ability and you'll immediately feel the difference if your used to one set up wrong...

I would get it set up right and just ride it- I don't know your ability or experience, but getting used to not putting your feet down and keeping momentum and keeping it balenced is important- sure sometimes you loose both and you have to put a foot doun- hopefully there's something under your foot when you do- for me sometimes there is in that instance sometimes there is not- SO you fall at 0-5mph, big deal. (sometimes it doesn't matter how tall you are there's nothing) that's part of this:thumbsup: SOmetimes my long legged friends have an advantage sometimes they don't.

Just get used to keeping your feet on the pegs- unless your in a power slide and you use the inside leg as a counter balence...👍

Not judging just sayen' you'll worry about that less with more saddle time:thumbsup:

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Ha ha, so it aint as bad for me as I though. Ha ha.

Yes, I am quite new to off road riding (have some adventure bike experience), not offended - always ready to get some extra advice. About keeping it on the pegs, i've been told that I should stop worrying about the seat height, but then every time we go on a very technical ride everyone has their feet darting out when they need to - becomes challenging when you're a short fellow like myself.

Didnt get the chance to set the suspension to your recommended values, will probably get round to it tonight or tomorrow night at the latest in time for some play time after work on Wednesday.

Regarding the confusing question abt "turning it up" - sorry, I meant to reduce the preload.

Thanks for the help, really glad I joined TT. Will let you know how the suspension feels, but will be a while before I manage to get into a good technical ride (too many ppl getting married these days!!! - shame).

Cheers

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