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I know this i a Husky forum however, since BMW now owns Husqvarna I thought this would be of some interest!

Has anyone else read the article in Dirt Rider on the new BMW 450? I didn't read it from front to back however, what I did read I didn't see Husqvarna mentioned once. Do you think Husky had any inlfuence on their design? Not the frame so much but the motor, etc. Ought to check out the countershaft sprocket/swingarm design...both have the same pivot point!

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I know this i a Husky forum however, since BMW now owns Husqvarna I thought this would be of some interest!

Has anyone else read the article in Dirt Rider on the new BMW 450? I didn't read it from front to back however, what I did read I didn't see Husqvarna mentioned once. Do you think Husky had any inlfuence on their design? Not the frame so much but the motor, etc. Ought to check out the countershaft sprocket/swingarm design...both have the same pivot point!

None whatsoever, BMW had this in development for 3+ years, the Husky acquisition only started 1 1/2 years ago.

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None whatsoever, BMW had this in development for 3+ years, the Husky acquisition only started 1 1/2 years ago.

Well...that answers that! 👍 Thanks...but what about the sprocket/swingarm design...That's bananas!

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Well...that answers that! 👍 Thanks...but what about the sprocket/swingarm design...That's bananas!

Apparently it works real well and eliminates the effects of engine torque being transmitted to the rear suspension which is a huge problem for any suspension designer or tuner.

Just something to think about.

HuskyRips

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the bike was actually developed by aprilia for bmw.

NO!!! Aprilla had nothing to do with the BMW 450X.

This was a BMW in-house project from the ground up.

Even the engine was a clean in-house design.

What you might see is BMW manufacture the BMW 450X at the Husqvarna plant in Italy to keep the cost down, but again anything is possible in this new global economy.

So no, Aprilla nor Rotex had anything to do with this design.

HuskyRips

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Apparently it works real well and eliminates the effects of engine torque being transmitted to the rear suspension which is a huge problem for any suspension designer or tuner.

Just something to think about.

HuskyRips

Ummmm? Ever ridden and ATK that had the ATraK system? Most found it to be "not-so-good" for serious woods use, unless you are a VERY serious (A or AA) rider. The suspension felt like it locked out when you chopped the throttle...got real kicky and hopped all over the place. Now that was with a very old-school WP shock so hopefully the Ohlins will be able to compensate for the lack of chain torque. They were incredible in chop and whoops as long as the throttle was WFO...

If people think a KTM rear suspension feels "dead" then wait until this thing hits the street.👍

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My buddy is a writer for a bike mag and gets his test bike at the start of Sept. I am looking forward to riding it.

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The suspension felt like it locked out when you chopped the throttle...got real kicky and hopped all over the place. Now that was with a very old-school WP shock

That's definitely a WP shock caracteristic. Even before the no-link system, KTMs had that problem.

Ohlins developped the system, so hopefully their shock will do the job on the Beamer.

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Ummmm? Ever ridden and ATK that had the ATraK system? Most found it to be "not-so-good" for serious woods use, unless you are a VERY serious (A or AA) rider. The suspension felt like it locked out when you chopped the throttle...got real kicky and hopped all over the place. Now that was with a very old-school WP shock so hopefully the Ohlins will be able to compensate for the lack of chain torque. They were incredible in chop and whoops as long as the throttle was WFO...

If people think a KTM rear suspension feels "dead" then wait until this thing hits the street.👍

You can't compare the ATKs system with BMWs system.

Totally different systems... one was a mechanical solution and the other just a very simple engineering solution.

ATKs system was based on technology that existed 20 years ago and BMWs is based on state of the art Ohlins technology.

So no you can't compare the two.

HuskyRips

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You can't compare the ATKs system with BMWs system.

Totally different systems... one was a mechanical solution and the other just a very simple engineering solution.

ATKs system was based on technology that existed 20 years ago and BMWs is based on state of the art Ohlins technology.

So no you can't compare the two.

HuskyRips

The purpose of the A-TraK set-up was to remove chain torque from the suspension. BMW touts the counter sprocket/swingarm pivot being on the same plane as being superior to other desgins for the same reason. We will see...I'm not being super critical here just tossing it out there.

The no-link/no torque reaction bikes will tend to pop the rear end up at odd times...somewhat eliminated by not completely closing the throttle...we call it trail-braking in stock cars...keeps the suspension loaded up. Doesn't allow as radical a change in geometry from accelerating to braking.

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No chain torque eliminates one problem and opens up a whole other can of worms. This has been done before at least in roadracing and it did not work out. Don't think that Husky, KTM, ot the big four are not aware of this issue and or are not smart enough to consider this solution. While I look forward to seeing how this all works out, I suspect it will not. Chain torque and brake dive are all things that are considered in setup and used to the advantage of the best riders. They are not engineering problems to be solved by the slide rule team.

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No chain torque eliminates one problem and opens up a whole other can of worms. This has been done before at least in roadracing and it did not work out. Don't think that Husky, KTM, ot the big four are not aware of this issue and or are not smart enough to consider this solution. While I look forward to seeing how this all works out, I suspect it will not. Chain torque and brake dive are all things that are considered in setup and used to the advantage of the best riders. They are not engineering problems to be solved by the slide rule team.

Great points:thumbsup: Thinking out of the box, sometimes simply puts you out of the box!

Norman

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Ummmm? Ever ridden and ATK that had the ATraK system? Most found it to be "not-so-good" for serious woods use, unless you are a VERY serious (A or AA) rider. The suspension felt like it locked out when you chopped the throttle...got real kicky and hopped all over the place. Now that was with a very old-school WP shock so hopefully the Ohlins will be able to compensate for the lack of chain torque. They were incredible in chop and whoops as long as the throttle was WFO...

I disagree with your assessment concerning the ATK A-Track suspension, or at least the A-Track part of it. With a 'standard' suspension the rear end stiffens up noticeably when the throttle is applied and softens somewhat on trailing throttle. The A-Track eliminated most of this and put the power to the ground notably better than the standard suspension of the day. This was especially noticeable on steep hill climbs. The suspension action, for better or worse, was more consistent with the A-Track.

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I disagree with your assessment concerning the ATK A-Track suspension, or at least the A-Track part of it. With a 'standard' suspension the rear end stiffens up noticeably when the throttle is applied and softens somewhat on trailing throttle. The A-Track eliminated most of this and put the power to the ground notably better than the standard suspension of the day. This was especially noticeable on steep hill climbs. The suspension action, for better or worse, was more consistent with the A-Track.

http://www.adbmag.com/ContentItem.aspx?contentID=3113

A real test ride/review...notice their comments on the rear suspension? The "ATK" version was quite impresive as long as the throttle was open, but much like this bike, will require several hours of riding to adapt to...some will hate it I'm afraid?

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No chain torque eliminates one problem and opens up a whole other can of worms. This has been done before at least in roadracing and it did not work out. Don't think that Husky, KTM, ot the big four are not aware of this issue and or are not smart enough to consider this solution. While I look forward to seeing how this all works out, I suspect it will not. Chain torque and brake dive are all things that are considered in setup and used to the advantage of the best riders. They are not engineering problems to be solved by the slide rule team.

Exactly. This is nothing new, been done many times for many things. Most find the trade-offs are not worth the advantages in the previous designs. I have several friends who design mountain bikes and they said the same thing. Not saying it can;t work and I do like the idea but it does have it's previously documented challenges.

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I am not a good enough rider to appreciate the chain torque/ suspension thing, but what I would appreciate is how much easier it would be to adjust the chain. No more 2.5" of slop on the stand, just set the chain freeplay and it will remain the same throughout the suspension travel, sweet...👍 Ken

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RIDE IMPRESSIONS ADB MagazineOne other thing that stands out when you ride the bike a little harder is the engine braking effect – not always, but on occasions. If you’re accelerating hard into fl at turns and then chop the throttle, while braking hard and turning in, the rear of the bike seems to almost magically reposition itself, having helped you make the turn. What, other than the engine braking, causes the bike to do this is hard to pinpoint. The somewhat unusual actions of the rear when turning, and the general ride that the bike offers, is the second thing, after the action of the clutch, that makes the BMW different to other bikes. With the bike having a no-link shock system, as well as the swingarm spindle running through the gearbox, the bike does little in the way of squatting when under acceleration, which feels a little strange at first. Where most other bikes settle into the stroke of the shock under modest acceleration, the BMW seems not to. Even when lifting the front wheel into the air, the rear-end doesn’t lower itself much at all. The whole bike kinda tips backwards pivoting around the rear axle, rather than the seat coming closer to the tyre. While increased static sag may well have eased the sensation of the bike having a high rear-end, the feeling when riding the bike was of something fundamentally different to a bike that simply had an incorrectly set-up shock. With time, you get used to the feel of the bike, but it is very different to other 450s, and much harder to explain than actually feel. http://www.adbmag.com/ContentItem.aspx?ContentID=3113&page=1

Hmmm....

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