heavier flywheel in the xcf?

[albertaguy]

First question - lets sort out does the xcf come with a heavier flywheel than the sxf? I thought that it did but it was a year ago I bought the bike and not so sure on that point anymore. I know a few of you have put on a plus 8oz on your 505sxf's. Maybe because my bike felt so unstoppable I just assumed it had a heavier flywheel from stock.

second question - for those who have done it what have you noticed other than not stalling as much. Does the top end feel tamed down? My bike is pretty unstopable now but it's not like I have never stalled it up some ugly stuff. Considering the heavier flywheel option if it already doesn't have it but don't want to lose too much on the top end for the sand dunes and the track.

[kirk 505]

I have read that the trail teck flywheel helps the stalling but doest loose much anywhere, maybe a little more tractable. As a bonus it puts out more charging power for your battery. I believe they modify your stock flywheel. Its enough power to run a 35w headlight.

[Dave Hopkins]

Yes 250XCf has heavier flywheel than 250SXF.

Flywheel weight has noting to do with "power" or "top end" it only effects inertia. My theory you want as little as you can manage the bike with

[albertaguy]

just checked out their website, looks like trail tech is it's own all new flywheel at plus8oz and $150. Sounds like a good thing, not sure what a guy needs for a flywheel puller.

[dhvann]

I just put the TrailTech 8oz on my XCF 450 and it is certainly an improvement when it comes to lugging the bike. It seems to tame the acceleration a bit but gives it more torque. I had thought I wanted a heavier than 8oz FW but this one seems great, an 8 is all that is offered anyway. As for the FW puller, I ordered the KTM puller for the SX/XCF and found that the bolt was not long enough and had to improvise a little.

[loopsrider]

I have the 8oz on my 505 SX-F and it never lost any top end. Even if it did it hooks so much harder until it tops out it is in reality WAY faster from point A to B....

[albertaguy]

so anyone use something other than ktm's flywheel puller? How much modification was needed to make it work. I think I'll order the flywheel, can always throw the original back in for the dunes if I don't like the plus 8oz but it may not make that much of a difference to make it worth the trouble. Climbed a nasty hill Saturday that most people only come down. Made it on second attempt where as with my mx 450's usually 4 or 5 or 6. Just steep, long, big rocks everywhere, and ledge after ledge after ledge. The bike lugs decent now -far better than any of my 450's but if I can translate many of those "almost stalled it" into "never even fanned the clutch" that would be a nice improvement. Now for some more detailed info on flywheel pullers.

[eastreich]

+1

My 505 SX-F pulls way harder with the 8oz TT fww. I think it is now just not completely spinning the tire up when I am on the gas.

I lost no top end whatsoever.

I have also not had a single rider from novices to pros that can totally smoke me on the MX track think that it was a bad thing. EVERYONE that has rode the bike with and without the heavier flywheel liked the bike much better with the heavier flywheel. Most felt it was much faster due to less wheelspin. I know that my lap times dropped by a few seconds per lap when I put it on.

The 450/505 SX-F/XC-F motors have the same flywheel. Same p/n from KTM, and I did weigh one of each. Can't remember the exact weight, but they were within acceptable manufacturing tolerances of each other (they were about 2g apart in mass) IMO.

[albertaguy]

That's great to hear, I was worried how it might affect track performance but sounds like it helps out - I'm excited. I ordered it today but won't have it in my hands until Monday. I asked the guy when I ordered what stock weight showed on his chart and if the sxf/xcf were the same. He had already left that page but said yes they were both the same and he thought they were 16oz. Anyway sounds like a good improvement.

[albertaguy]

So I have the new flywheel in my hands. 1. What did you guys use for a puller - borrow one from your shop? or aftermarket. Someone posted that the ktm one didn't work right? 2. Did you need a new side cover gasket or did it come off easy and was able to be reused. Thanks.

[dhvann]

I ordered the KTM puller but it took a while to get it so the dealer let me borrow theirs. The center bolt was not long enough so I placed a short hex head bolt inside the hole of the shaft where the flywheel bolt goes. Then screw on the flywheel puller over the flywheel. This short hex head bolt will raise the contact point of the flywheel puller thus allowing a shorter bolt in the flywheel puller. I would try to borrow one before you spend 50+ for a puller.

[albertaguy]

So I installed my shiny new flywheel late yesterday, everything as per the instructions, couldn't get my bike started (normally just pull the choke and it fires in a second or two from cold, almost instant firing from hot). I figure I either flooded it or fouled the plug from laying it on it's side (wasn't right on the ground, I rest the end of my bars on my stand, same as for oil changes priming the filter housing). So I pull started it with the quad because I was anxious to try it out, (it took longer than I thought it should to catch when pulling it). It did fire up though and I could tell a difference, it seemed like more traction, pulled harder. Did a quick test lap around my track and seemed to corner nice and pull solid up to and through jumps. So I was happy but once it was turned off the bike wouldn't start again on it's own. I figured it must be a bad plug so at 6:30 this morning I changed the plug before heading to the track, nice and dark chocolate brown, put a new one in anyway and it still won't start. So in my trailer in the parking lot of the track I put my stock flywheel back on and it fires up in the first two seconds - back to her old self (yes I have an air compressor, generator, impact wrench and full tool chest in my trailer). I will be calling trail tech monday for sure to troubleshoot but has anyone ever had this??? Ideas??? Let me help - I followed all the instructions which included adding spacers under the sensor to raise it up into a better position for the new flywheel. It can only go on one way as there's a spline key. What I didn't do was hold the two flywheels together to see if the spline key grooves and the high spot that the sensor reads were in the same positions from one flywheel to the other, you would think if that was mixed up the timing of the spark would be all off and it wouldn't have ran good for me. It lists my bike on the box part number sticker and everything fit good and made sense EXCEPT the instructions called for a 19 or 21 mm socket (something big) to remove the flywheel "retaining nut" yet mine was a 14 mm headed bolt which also explains why the puller doesn't work without sticking something down on top of the crank spline bolt hole for the center bolt of the puller to hit (I used a washer, otherwise the center bolt sinks into the bolt hole and bottoms out on the puller before it does any pulling). Any bright ideas out there. It's odd that it ran good once it started but that was only a 5 minute quick test ride so maybe performance issues would have shown up. At the moment it's biggest performance issue is that MY BIKE WON'T START WITH IT INSTALLED, (they should have put that on their warning label). It also seemed to spin about the same speed when it was trying to start. I thought maybe it's harder to turn over with the extra weight but you would think that would have a minimal affect if any. Plus I think others have said it made starting their bikes easier. Also I had the battery all topped up on the tender and had lots of juice. Did I miss something??? I want 3 explanations from each of you in 12 hours, no - make that 12 explanations in 3 hours! Well actually I'll just take whatever I can get when it when it comes - thanks.

[loopsrider]

So I installed my shiny new flywheel late yesterday, everything as per the instructions, couldn't get my bike started (normally just pull the choke and it fires in a second or two from cold, almost instant firing from hot). I figure I either flooded it or fouled the plug from laying it on it's side (wasn't right on the ground, I rest the end of my bars on my stand, same as for oil changes priming the filter housing). So I pull started it with the quad because I was anxious to try it out, (it took longer than I thought it should to catch when pulling it). It did fire up though and I could tell a difference, it seemed like more traction, pulled harder. Did a quick test lap around my track and seemed to corner nice and pull solid up to and through jumps. So I was happy but once it was turned off the bike wouldn't start again on it's own. I figured it must be a bad plug so at 6:30 this morning I changed the plug before heading to the track, nice and dark chocolate brown, put a new one in anyway and it still won't start. So in my trailer in the parking lot of the track I put my stock flywheel back on and it fires up in the first two seconds - back to her old self (yes I have an air compressor, generator, impact wrench and full tool chest in my trailer). I will be calling trail tech monday for sure to troubleshoot but has anyone ever had this??? Ideas??? Let me help - I followed all the instructions which included adding spacers under the sensor to raise it up into a better position for the new flywheel. It can only go on one way as there's a spline key. What I didn't do was hold the two flywheels together to see if the spline key grooves and the high spot that the sensor reads were in the same positions from one flywheel to the other, you would think if that was mixed up the timing of the spark would be all off and it wouldn't have ran good for me. It lists my bike on the box part number sticker and everything fit good and made sense EXCEPT the instructions called for a 19 or 21 mm socket (something big) to remove the flywheel "retaining nut" yet mine was a 14 mm headed bolt which also explains why the puller doesn't work without sticking something down on top of the crank spline bolt hole for the center bolt of the puller to hit (I used a washer, otherwise the center bolt sinks into the bolt hole and bottoms out on the puller before it does any pulling). Any bright ideas out there. It's odd that it ran good once it started but that was only a 5 minute quick test ride so maybe performance issues would have shown up. At the moment it's biggest performance issue is that MY BIKE WON'T START WITH IT INSTALLED, (they should have put that on their warning label). It also seemed to spin about the same speed when it was trying to start. I thought maybe it's harder to turn over with the extra weight but you would think that would have a minimal affect if any. Plus I think others have said it made starting their bikes easier. Also I had the battery all topped up on the tender and had lots of juice. Did I miss something??? I want 3 explanations from each of you in 12 hours, no - make that 12 explanations in 3 hours! Well actually I'll just take whatever I can get when it when it comes - thanks.

Well. I can give you one explanation... You went with a Trailtech and not a Steahly...

When I got my bike they were just designing the flywheels for the new engines. I phoned Trailtech and they said they were having trouble aligning the trigger coil and that was affecting starting. I'm told the trigger coi only affect starting and the stator takes over after a certain RPM. I'm only guessing , but that sounds like the trouble you are having....I would have thought they had corrected it by now...

My Steahly came with the spacers from the get-go. I actually had someone from Trailtech PM me and ask how I got it to work properly. I had to do some fine tuning with coil clearance but it has worked flawlessly for over a year...

[albertaguy]

Well. I can give you one explanation... You went with a Trailtech and not a Steahly...

When I got my bike they were just designing the flywheels for the new engines. I phoned Trailtech and they said they were having trouble aligning the trigger coil and that was affecting starting. I'm told the trigger coi only affect starting and the stator takes over after a certain RPM. I'm only guessing , but that sounds like the trouble you are having....I would have thought they had corrected it by now...

My Steahly came with the spacers from the get-go. I actually had someone from Trailtech PM me and ask how I got it to work properly. I had to do some fine tuning with coil clearance but it has worked flawlessly for over a year...

I thought they were the same company??? It's kind of important that you can start your bike, they might want to mention that when they take your order over the phone "your new flywheel will arrive in 2-3 business days after which time your bike will no longer run. Do you own a quad and a tow rope sir?" I will be talking with them Monday. They'll say send it back and I'll say what about the shipping plus the tax I had to pay to get it across the border - bla bla bla, sounds like I just got a $150 paper weight - hey, a paper weight, that's office supplies, now I can write it off - I feel better.

[loopsrider]

I thought they were the same company??? It's kind of important that you can start your bike, they might want to mention that when they take your order over the phone "your new flywheel will arrive in 2-3 business days after which time your bike will no longer run. Do you own a quad and a tow rope sir?" I will be talking with them Monday. They'll say send it back and I'll say what about the shipping plus the tax I had to pay to get it across the border - bla bla bla, sounds like I just got a $150 paper weight - hey, a paper weight, that's office supplies, now I can write it off - I feel better.

That really sucks...

Here is a copy of the PMs we sent back and forthe about a year ago. Maybe it will hep you out or you could PM this guy directly. They say that Steahly flywheels are a Trailtech product, yet when I phoned Steahly they said they had bo idea what Trailtech was talking about...hope this helps out...

Originally Posted by kwtrail

We did an 07 450 SX. It would not e-start after the flywheel install. We took it that problem was picky magnet time (no impact on running, only a check the CDI makes before starting).

We bump started the bike, it ran wan worked great - end of work to date.

We need to get back in and figure out what the issue is.

the worst that can happen is the bike will not e-start. <----- LOL.... I just love this part.....apperantly e-start isn't a big deal to them:lol:

Interesting...

Are you referring to the small trigger coil that mounts outward of the flywheel?

My Steahly weight had 2 small spacers that brought the coil into proper alignment with the magnet.

-loops

Originally posted by kwtrail

Was your "Steahly weight" a complete flywheel or just a weight? If it was a complete flywheel, we made it. We make the flywheels from scratch and align the trigger with the trigger coil.

It is possible they are using our older sx flywheel and adding the spacers to get alignment.

[dhvann]

I have not had one ounce of a problem starting my 450 with the TT FWW. I would call TT and discuss with them.

[eastreich]

With the pickup sitting farther out, I wonder if yours is just a little too far away from the flywheel now to get a good signal at idle speeds, but when the motor is spinning faster (say when being pulled behind a truck or ATV) that there is enough rpm for a stronger electromagnetic field to make up the difference?

Could be you just need to bend the pickup in about a half mm or so?

Seems odd to me, as mine has run like a top from the first install.

[albertaguy]

called trail tech, sounds like it's my job to figure out the issue as they won't send me another one without getting mine back first or without me paying for a second one so I guess I'll tear it back apart tonight and see if I can tell what's different between the two. In all reality the snow will be flying way before I get another one in my hands if it turns out to be a bad flywheel. I love how warrenty stuff goes with most places. I install their product according to their instructions but if I have a problem and it doesn't work then it's my job to figure out what's wrong with their product. And of course they have never had this happen before so I must have done something wrong. Nothing is malfunctioning on my bike because I put my stock flywheel back in and it started right up as normal and ran the same as always, rode track for 3 hours Saturday with no issues. Now I have to wait and go through all the time and shipping costs back and forth, stupid.

[albertaguy]

With the pickup sitting farther out, I wonder if yours is just a little too far away from the flywheel now to get a good signal at idle speeds, but when the motor is spinning faster (say when being pulled behind a truck or ATV) that there is enough rpm for a stronger electromagnetic field to make up the difference?

Could be you just need to bend the pickup in about a half mm or so?

Seems odd to me, as mine has run like a top from the first install.

the spacers lift it up so the pickup isn't sitting any further out as far as I know. That being said I never did spin it around and check the gap, just installed it and tried to ride it. That is what I will check next but the bracket and the provided spacers are taperd and fit into a countersunk bolt hole so their allignment shouldn't be able to shift on you. I need to hold both together and see that the machined bump and spline lock orientation are the same but if the timing was off bad enough to not start it should have ran poorly also. So most likely it is the space between that bump and the sensor that is the trouble. I don't even know how you would be able to change that space because with the tappered spacers you wouldn't be able to slide it closer. I'll look at it after work.

[loopsrider]

the spacers lift it up so the pickup isn't sitting any further out as far as I know. That being said I never did spin it around and check the gap, just installed it and tried to ride it. That is what I will check next but the bracket and the provided spacers are taperd and fit into a countersunk bolt hole so their allignment shouldn't be able to shift on you. I need to hold both together and see that the machined bump and spline lock orientation are the same but if the timing was off bad enough to not start it should have ran poorly also. So most likely it is the space between that bump and the sensor that is the trouble. I don't even know how you would be able to change that space because with the tappered spacers you wouldn't be able to slide it closer. I'll look at it after work.

I had a slight problem with the spacers holes being slightly oversize and allowing the pickup coil to possibly be mounted too far away from the flywheel. I would personally put it back to stock and measure the air gap and the exact orientation of the magnets on the flywheel in relation to the pickup coil. Then without moving the crank position I would slip on the Weighted flywheel and see if the magnet orientation is out of whack. I can't remember if the magnets are even visible on the flywheel tho... If so, I would then reinstall the spacers and measure airgap. Basically if the air gap and the orientation are right it should flash up...

From the sounds of it the pickup coil is only used when you try to e-start it. Not sure of the theory behind that...