How dumb is this idea?

[Calef]

Ok so I bent my handle bars on My DRZ400SM playing boy racer in the grass... I was replacing the bars and i think to myself "hey, i could just turn the bars upside down and it would feel like a Cafe racer.

After a bit of experimenting it didnt seem like such a bad idea. It is possible but i needed to move a few things around in the wire/ cable routing. I played with the different ideas for about an hour and decided i would sleep on it. All and all i think it could work and it might be nice especially as i am a little guy and i chopped about 2.5 inches of foam from my seat so lowing the handle bars might feel really good.

Discuss... really stupid, kinda stupid, may work, you might like it weirdo but i would never do it, people do it all the time or sheer innovative genius? Do you guys anticipate handling problems?

Happy moto!

Calef

[f2dog]

It's probably a better idea to use clip on bars if you want the bars lower than standard.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533811&highlight=clip+on+bar

[Mototalla]

When I replaced my old handlebars I tried this just for fun, handling was crappy and it looked absolutely ridiculos Just go with low model or maybe the clipons as f2dog suggested.

[William1]

Had a friend who had a '63 BSA 250. He did this. It worked but the angles were a bit off.

[ida71]

I did this to a naked road bike many years ago, worked a treat & was much cheaper than buying race bars ! If it suits you then do it.

[Calef]

The reason i dont want to go with clip ons is you need to lower the forks in the triple clamps and i want to keep my suspension stock. Lowering the fork and not messing with the rear will surely make it handle like shit. I know cause i tried to do that with handle bar risers for fun.

[Calef]

Mototalla, why was the handling poor? I would think that the handling would be more effected by changing the head tube angle by sliding the fork tubes up to accommodate clip ons. Seems like lowering the bars would just change your hand position.

Then again it does seem like im justifying my dumb idea. Im going to try it, but im like wondering how much modifications i should do to make it happen ha! Cause it does seem like there is a good chance i will go back.

But, i think it looks pretty cool... when im done i will post photos

[beemerwolf]

How dumb is this idea? ........

Hey, NO IDEA IS DUMB

maybe the execution of that idea "is dumb"

maybe paying the cost to implement it "is dumb"

maybe the change in performance that you got "is dumb"

WITHOUT IDEAS we would be nowhere:bonk:

try it out.....AND PLEASE - post up some pics

HappyRiding !!

:ride:

[Mototalla]

Mototalla, why was the handling poor? I would think that the handling would be more effected by changing the head tube angle by sliding the fork tubes up to accommodate clip ons. Seems like lowering the bars would just change your hand position.

Then again it does seem like im justifying my dumb idea. Im going to try it, but im like wondering how much modifications i should do to make it happen ha! Cause it does seem like there is a good chance i will go back.

But, i think it looks pretty cool... when im done i will post photos

Well, that was just my opinion. See I'm used to riding dirtbikes and really like the riding position of a dirtbike. I've tried sportbikes also, but don't feel as comfortable on them.

The bars I turned was magura fatbar, so I guess there's a difference in which bars you use, mine has quite a high bend, so it was quite low upside down. I took it to a testride, just a couple of hundred meters and felt really weird. I can't explain how, but cornering felt uncomfortable. However, I guess you'll get used to it over time. I'm not saying you shouldn't try it, go ahead and try how it feels, maybe you like it, you never know. Even so, I'd prefer a low bend bars. But as I said, try it, it's no big job so why not.

[Regalman]

Discuss... really stupid

My new TT leaf I've turned over does not allow me to comment.

[CRF250X Rider]

Lol I've thought of it , but I ride dirt and i'm 6'3" so it would be an all around dumb idea. But I did set my bars up like that just because it looked funny, but never tightened anything down.

[Devondan]

Thats funny! I had a Norton cafe racer with ace bars and turned them upside down to save my back, I thought they were cool kinda looked like mini ape hangers!

Pic of an Enfield with ace bars the rght way up.

http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/2005_bike_pics/Bullet_65_sport.jpg

[JCEN]

Dumb, its a dirt bike and it's supposed to have the ergonomics of a dirt bike. The stock bars are already too low for stand up riding why would you do this.

[Devondan]

errr ..... fun?!

[Calef]

Dumb, its a dirt bike and it's supposed to have the ergonomics of a dirt bike. The stock bars are already too low for stand up riding why would you do this.

Take a look at my post... its a super moto. I stand up every once in a while to stretch... but im pretty sure standing on the road will get the attention of Johnny Law pretty quick.

Ether way, i have it all tightened down and im ready to give it a run im just waiting on a new brake lever. I broke it trying to bend it back.

All in all i think i will like it:smirk: especially as i chopped 2 or 3 inches of foam out of my saddle so the handle bars felt really high before. It is rather dark now but i will post pictures later.

Thanks for the input guys

[KTM-DARRIN]

is standing on the pegs illegal in Vermont?

[612Rob]

The reason i dont want to go with clip ons is you need to lower the forks in the triple clamps and i want to keep my suspension stock. Lowering the fork and not messing with the rear will surely make it handle like shit. I know cause i tried to do that with handle bar risers for fun.

You would actually be raising the tube in the clamp which does not change the angle of the fork. It does affect the handling though as it shortens the overall wheel base of the bike.

How far up do you have to move the tubes to run clipons? It takes quite a lot before you can notice it.

Is there not a clip on that mounts on the triple clamp bolts?

[Calef]

Is standing Illegal in VT? Not sure if there is a specific law. But you can get popped for no reason at all. I got pulled over just cause i look like an illegal dirt bike. I try not create more reasons to get pulled over, they have all sorts of vague tickets they can write. Its not like VT cops in general suck... just the county sheriff that hangs out in my town for 3 hours a week and has to make it look like he is busy so he write about 18 tickets in 3 hours. You go to the bank and he has one person pulled over on the way out of town and a different one on you way back into town and when you are not lucky it is you he is pulling over. So i ride through town the speed limit sitting down. Now that is effective law enforcing. I go speed in the next county over!

You would actually be raising the tube in the clamp which does not change the angle of the fork. It does affect the handling though as it shortens the overall wheel base of the bike.

Ok here is the skinny on bike geometry.

When i am talking bout fork angle i am talking about fork angle to the ground, not the angle of the fork to the bike... as that fixed cause it is welded on.

Moving the forks in the triple tree effects the wheel base only in a small amount and i dont think that dramatically effects the handling. to a certain extent longer is more stable but i think it is less important than head tube angle. Look at mountain bikes: they make one model in a small- XL with a wheel base difference as big as 6 inches but they handle the same because they all have almost the same head tube angle. On the other hand an XC mountain bike has tight handling with a typical head tube angle at like 74 degrees, a trail bike has a slacker head tube angle at about 70 and a Down Hill bike can have like a 67 degree head tube. Some manufacturers make long mountain bikes, other short, but that head tube angle thing is pretty universal for the type of bike.

Fork length is crucial to head tube angle. a longer fork makes a lower head tube angle. Its just simple geometry.

So yes, pulling the forks up to put clip ons on the bike will decrease the length, but the unstable steering that you get will be because of the steep head tube angle.

Which is why you see people who lower the rear of the DRZ use clip ons because they have lowered the rear end and it rides like a low rider. SUPER slow steering from a slack head tube angle, so the lower the front end too. Clip ons let you slide the fork up the tripple tree a bunch and are a ton cheapr than rebuilding your fork AND you dont have to loose suspension travel.

SO... in theory I have not effected my suspension/ head tube angle geometry so i dont think the handling will be that much different. Which is why i chose to cut my seat rather than mess with the rear suspension. My bike is lower, i can get my leg over it without needing to muck with the front suspension. And cutting the saddle was cheap too If i were to ride no handed with upside down handle bars the bike would handle the same as normal bars, if i were to put clip ons on the bike (with out lowering the rear end) then i would not dare ride with no hands as the bike would be way unstable. The same way you can ride no handed on a Down hill mountain bike much easier than a road bike.

BUT i do expect with the controls upside down my control inputs will feel weird. AND i may have less control or torque on the bars in their new possition.

How far up do you have to move the tubes to run clipons? It takes quite a lot before you can notice it.

From the images of Clip on Bars it looks like you have to slide the tubes up at least 2 or 2.5 inches.

I tried the Tusk handle bar raising for giggles one day. I thought it would be fun to have a steeper head tube angle and tighter handling. At about an inch and a half up the bike actually felt noticeably unstable on rough pavement... which we have a lot of here in VT.

So the whole idea of turning the handlebars upside down was to give a street fighter posture without jacking with the DRZ's stable handling and ability to pour through the corners.

If im by anyone's calculations im wrong in my thinking please do correct me. Im just trying to think it all through and predict my outcome as i wont ride it until i get the brake lever which should be coming tomorrow or monday.

So I will let you guys know...

[gbwilliams]

dude, just get some low bend pro tapers and call it a day, you'll never bend your bars again and never have to buy any bars ever again.

[612Rob]

You can not change the angle either to the ground or the bike, the angle is fixed. You are obviously correct with what it does to the handling. This is because it changes the wheel base and even more importantly moves the front wheel closer to the center of gravity.

One of the changes some manufacturers have been making recently, Honda for example, with motocross bikes is to change the position of the front wheel in the fork. They pull the front wheel back 10mm in the fork, this accomplishes the same thing as changing the offset (head tube angle) without changing the offset. (cheaper) It greatly affects handling.

That is what you are doing by moving the forks up.

You could also leave the forks as low in the triples as possible and mount the clip on below the triple clamp:thumbsup: Now we're thinking.