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Fork Shock

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Forkshock.jpg

Sorry about the crude pic, I drew it up on paint in a few minutes but I'm just throwing out an idea.

Feel free to trash the idea at will, I'd like to hear both sides of the fence if there even is an up-side.

The concept is not to reinvent the wheel and more so keep designs and functions simple, which would make tuning easier, less time consuming and eaiser to pin down adverse issues.

The design is simular to shock so, familularity to aspects of the internals are the same.

fork would use a progressive spring

High and low speed compression adjustment is external same as a shock, rebound is adjusted same as a shock or fork which ever system would apply best.

The lower tripple clamp could be a 2 piecs design to allow easy removal of fork.

I don't think fabing up such a system would be all that dificult.

What do you think?

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you copied the rear shock:applause:

no just kidding:smirk: ,but it dose resemble one:smirk:.

i see the concept your designing a shock that has more bleed off for dampening,instead of a hard hit or a soft mush.patten that idea before i do.:lol:

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you copied the rear shock:applause:

no just kidding:smirk: ,but it dose resemble one:smirk:.

Ya, that's exactly what I did, get back to a more simple design, comtrol everything with the BV and the HS/LS adjuster, of course spring rates, the system is sealed like a shock add in 2 bleed ports to make bleeding easier.

Once the BV and HS LS circuits are close all other adjustments can be done externally.

I'd also add a external spring preload adjustment via a threaded sleve located in the bottom of the fork...wouldn't be that hard to design.

i see the concept your designing a shock that has more bleed off for dampening,instead of a hard hit or a soft mush.patten that idea before i do.:lol:

Already have a copy right.

External HS adjustment, the shock is simple in design and function then the TC forks.

Don't you think that in trying to fix certin aspects of the TC fork we create more problems then we solve and as the complication factor rises so does the R&D to fix the problems.

AS simple as a shock is could that simplified system in essence be applyed to the forks?

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It's late, so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious. But it appears that you might have a difficult time sealing both the piston rod and the fork slider........

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The way to do it is a ohlins style metering system I think....use no midvalve...all damping control is one stationary valve, the mid is replaced with a big piston that takes the entire fork volume....and doesn't allow fluid through if that makes any sense.

The slider becomes a closed cap that forces fluid is what I am trying to say.

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It's late, so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious. But it appears that you might have a difficult time sealing both the piston rod and the fork slider........

I agree...like I said it's a crude simple drawing and only there to get the theory of using the shock design in a fork application.

As for the sealing the slider, I think that could be accomplished in either 2 ways,

1) Q, Would the internal pressure be that high that the current fork seal design couldn't work or be up graded to work.

2) Or utilize the basic cart housing move the BV to where the MV is and seal the system from the sliders/outer chamber as in the current TC cart design.

The rez, fork cap and piston chamber are a 1 piece unit, they dissasemble for service but that would seal it off from the OC.

I think the advantages are a more simple design with more external adjustments.

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one question -where should the oil flow below the piston? you just draw it completely unengaged. draw it compressed and don't forget there is the inner fork leg. while moving the fork the entire unit (piston, rod and inner fork tube) is moving. you cannot seal the shock rod because the inner fork leg moves with the rod and you cannot fix it to the outer due to the inner leg. so whatever the oil volume is beneath the piston it will not change during fork action and therefore no oil will flow through the piston.

either you go with a shock in a shock (like todays twin chamber) or a real shock must have enormous inner and outer fork legs.

if you want benefit from damping adjustment it's no big problem to build extern gas/oil tanks for twin chambers and limit the oil flow through adjusters like it's on shocks.

just my one cent

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Looks like a WP fork with external resivor to me if you want to talk simplified terms.

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one question -where should the oil flow below the piston? you just draw it completely unengaged. draw it compressed and don't forget there is the inner fork leg. while moving the fork the entire unit (piston, rod and inner fork tube) is moving. you cannot seal the shock rod because the inner fork leg moves with the rod and you cannot fix it to the outer due to the inner leg. so whatever the oil volume is beneath the piston it will not change during fork action and therefore no oil will flow through the piston.

kawa.....I think that's what I was getting at.

Cool thought though, moto. Keep working on it!

:lol:

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one question -where should the oil flow below the piston? you just draw it completely unengaged. draw it compressed and don't forget there is the inner fork leg. while moving the fork the entire unit (piston, rod and inner fork tube) is moving. you cannot seal the shock rod because the inner fork leg moves with the rod and you cannot fix it to the outer due to the inner leg. so whatever the oil volume is beneath the piston it will not change during fork action and therefore no oil will flow through the piston.

either you go with a shock in a shock (like todays twin chamber) or a real shock must have enormous inner and outer fork legs.

if you want benefit from damping adjustment it's no big problem to build extern gas/oil tanks for twin chambers and limit the oil flow through adjusters like it's on shocks.

just my one cent

Agreed, I didn't draw it up as an internal damper I was just trying to throw the concept out there.

So, here it is as a internal damper that merly replaces the cart, I revised the rez to a remote rez so the fork can be inserted and removed from the triple clamps without any required mods to the triple clamps.

The sliders and tubes require no mods...except I'd like to see a spring preload adjuster on the bottom of the fork leg.

May need to add a bleeder to the outer chamber.

But I plan to get this idea off the page.

internaldamper-1.jpg

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ok, now it will work (btw, I was thinking about the first drawing and I think it will work with a right side up fork) but what is the main difference and advantage to a todays cartridge - except for an outside reservoir with the possibility for an HS adjuster? It's real easy do add this to a KYB cartridge - I have done this - so could you explain this a bit more?

thanx

It's late, so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious. But it appears that you might have a difficult time sealing both the piston rod and the fork slider........

sorry, it's very hard to understand some things without drawings, especially for non-US citizens :lol:

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ok, now it will work (btw, I was thinking about the first drawing and I think it will work with a right side up fork) but what is the main difference and advantage to a todays cartridge - except for an outside reservoir with the possibility for an HS adjuster? It's real easy do add this to a KYB cartridge - I have done this - so could you explain this a bit more?

thanx

sorry, it's very hard to understand some things without drawings, especially for non-US citizens :lol:

A few things, Simplicity is one, HS adjustment and a adjustible airspring are a few others, I'm no engineer or suspension guru but external adjustments on a fork are behind in function compaired to a shock...why is that??

Twin adjusters have been on shocks for years but not on a fork.

If you could have a fork that has more external adjustment...and more tuning options without being forced to open up the fork, would that not be a benifit?

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hydraulic subtanks

that's what was my first impression as well :lol:

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A few things, Simplicity is one, HS adjustment and a adjustible airspring are a few others, I'm no engineer or suspension guru but external adjustments on a fork are behind in function compaired to a shock...why is that??

Twin adjusters have been on shocks for years but not on a fork.

If you could have a fork that has more external adjustment...and more tuning options without being forced to open up the fork, would that not be a benifit?

That is what a nice set of subtanks will do. They can(when properly used) and will give you external air spring adjustments, and give you a tweek on the compression curve that you cannot get without them, no matter how much you spend on a re-valve. No other modification will give you a speed sensitive air spring. And, it is externaly adjustable too.

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i think the main problem will be friction, a shock has a lot of friction, but that is overcome to a degree by the leverage its under, a fork is not and with 2 setups connected to the front wheel i bet it would have a lot of stiction.

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