Steering Stabilizer's,Who's Is Best???and why???

[Rut Row]

I want to see reasons why they are a necessity?

Simple - Poser Envy The poser without the damper will be envious of the poser with one!

Seriously - I watched a 67yo guy at the Pine Barrons 300 wax almost everyone's ass on a very basic CRF 450 R - no damper, no fancy exhaust, etc - just one hell of a good rider.

I think the definitive answer is whatever makes a rider happy is the right answer. btw, I'm putting one on over the winter.

[Fast Forward]

One benefit I discovered after installing my Scotts was reduced strain on my arms and shoulders (particularly my elbows). I've had two surgeries on my left elbow and historically it would always be sore following a ride. After installing the Scotts my post ride elbow pain was virtually gone. I believe that dampers remove the small and almost undetected forces that are naturally transmitted through the bars. For this reason alone I would recommend one.

I can't say I have any evidence that it has increased speed but I do feel that it could prevent the unexpected jarring of the front wheel which could prevent a crash. Preventing one crash at high speed could keep you alive to ride again, well worth it in my opinion.

[cubera]

I do not like having a stabilizer and only find them usefull for helping control those unexpected high speed tank slappers. I use one for that reason. I have experience with GPR's and Scott's and they perfrom equally well IMHO. GPR does have high speed dampening but that feature is not adjustable. If you must have one then buy the cheapest one you can find that is submounted and be happy with it. These things are waaaaay overrated and overpriced. JM02

[tsquare]

Thank's for the feedback! I took my bike in and had the suspension done. What a differance,im going to race the summer serie's without a ss and work on my riding skill's and if i feel like it will help my speed i will not hesitate to add one later. Once again thank you all for your time and smart's!!

[1996CC]

Scotts is also transferable to different bikes in the future when you buy a new one. At most you'll just have to buy a new mounting bracket.

It has extended my endurance, I'm not nearly as worn out at the end of the day.

[Procon]

We have been very methodic in our racing bike and equipment changes throughout the season and we feel that the stabilizer has offered three benefits:

1) No more head shake.... real scarey when pinned in 5th. gear.

2) Less fatigue to top of body. Can relax the grip due to no fear of head shake. The rough stuff can be cut through quicker, thus shaving a bit of lap time.

3) Suspension was forced to take more of the high speed ruts, roots, rocks, and edges and less shock felt through frame. The 02 Honda is a very stiff frame and has no mercy on softening a high speed spike.

I feel confident that this was a great improvement for us (your mileage may vary) as I am sure the other racers improved along with him.

Our other race reference has been the District champion AA racer and we have been monitoring my sons speed difference and his on each race. We are very fortunate that our Hare Scrambles have two barcode scanners at the lap tent. Once the race is completed, the results are posted online and the results are a hoot to look at and analyze.

As for the my opion that the stabilizer was a key component in our overall speed increase strategy, here are the differences between my son and the fastest guy on the track (percent difference per race on overall speed).

8%

10%

8%

10%

10%

12%

11%

19%

4%

4%

5%

6%

We installed the steering stabilizer on the 4th. to last race and effectively decreased the speed difference by a whole 50%. In Hare Scrambles, as much as a .01mph difference (over a two hour race) will place you behind the other racer.

Go to RPAOffroad.com to see the benefits of the tent lap scanner. I think it is awsome.

This is my sons second year of racing and we are hopeful we can overtake the champion on the 2010 season. Some of his success is attributed to equipment, his keen desire to improve (and actually impliment some of his Dad's recommendations), and desire to catch and pass the guys in the class above him. Attitude is a big one and the removal of a sore ars (suspension work) and removal of headshake (GPR stabilizer) made for the perfect combination for a successful season.

If I had no money constraints, I'd put him on a 2009 Yamaha YZ250 (2-cycle) perch, add a flywheel, do little or no suspension work, maybe gear down a bit, an IMS tank, a GPR stabilizer, handguards, run him on Michelin S12 tires, and tell him to persue the A class championship.

Just my 2 cents that seems to always cost me $1.25. :-)

[hobbs32]

I feel the scotts is the best dampner out there, you have to play with the settings to get it dialed in, its not really a bolt on and ride part. I don't feel the gpr is a very good dampner it just seems like you can't even turn it up without it effecting the turning of the bike. But there is a ton a top off road riders that use the gpr so what do I know. Then again there is alot of top riders that run no dampner.

[dav3406]

I race desert scrambles out here in Calif and have noticed the stabilizer has helped with riding in rocks, keeping the bike straighter in the whoops, eliminating head shake, and generally increasing my confidence level in going fast (don't underestimate that benefit, even if it is all phsycological!). I do pretty intensive training exercises for my upper body anyway, but I have also noticed less fatigue with the stabilizer. On the down side, I have had two minor crashes at medium speed in sand washes where I haven't been able to really figure out why I went down. All I can figure is the stabilizer restricted my ability to quickly make corrections and input to the bars/front wheel. Reducing the damping probably would have eliminated that problem, but I'm not in the habit of making adjustments to the damper while I'm racing, I just set it where I think is best and leave it. After racing with the damper, would I race without one? I don't think so -- I think the benefits outweigh the downsides.

By the way, I have a Scotts damper.

[jat250wr]

Anyone know what place has the best price on the GPR?

[tsquare]

dav3406, thank's for the info.very useful to say the least!good luck this coming race season!

[IDAHOSPUD]

I have the GPR ver 1. I like it a lot. I like the how rugged it is built and how simple (one metal knob). the price and lifetime support.

[NorCal]

We have been very methodic in our racing bike and equipment changes throughout the season and we feel that the stabilizer has offered three benefits:

1) No more head shake.... real scarey when pinned in 5th. gear.

2) Less fatigue to top of body. Can relax the grip due to no fear of head shake. The rough stuff can be cut through quicker, thus shaving a bit of lap time.

3) Suspension was forced to take more of the high speed ruts, roots, rocks, and edges and less shock felt through frame. The 02 Honda is a very stiff frame and has no mercy on softening a high speed spike.

I feel confident that this was a great improvement for us (your mileage may vary) as I am sure the other racers improved along with him.

Our other race reference has been the District champion AA racer and we have been monitoring my sons speed difference and his on each race. We are very fortunate that our Hare Scrambles have two barcode scanners at the lap tent. Once the race is completed, the results are posted online and the results are a hoot to look at and analyze.

As for the my opion that the stabilizer was a key component in our overall speed increase strategy, here are the differences between my son and the fastest guy on the track (percent difference per race on overall speed).

8%

10%

8%

10%

10%

12%

11%

19%

4%

4%

5%

6%

We installed the steering stabilizer on the 4th. to last race and effectively decreased the speed difference by a whole 50%. In Hare Scrambles, as much as a .01mph difference (over a two hour race) will place you behind the other racer.

Go to RPAOffroad.com to see the benefits of the tent lap scanner. I think it is awsome.

This is my sons second year of racing and we are hopeful we can overtake the champion on the 2010 season. Some of his success is attributed to equipment, his keen desire to improve (and actually impliment some of his Dad's recommendations), and desire to catch and pass the guys in the class above him. Attitude is a big one and the removal of a sore ars (suspension work) and removal of headshake (GPR stabilizer) made for the perfect combination for a successful season.

If I had no money constraints, I'd put him on a 2009 Yamaha YZ250 (2-cycle) perch, add a flywheel, do little or no suspension work, maybe gear down a bit, an IMS tank, a GPR stabilizer, handguards, run him on Michelin S12 tires, and tell him to persue the A class championship.

Just my 2 cents that seems to always cost me $1.25. :-)

What class does your son race?

[Procon]

My son raced B class this year and will run A class for the 2009 season.

[NorCal]

The stabilizer helped him secure his class championship for AMA District 16 (where he consistently beat the A riders and serveral AAs) and won his first national race.

My son raced B class this year and will run A class for the 2009 season.

Is it me or does that make any sense to you?

Please explain to me how a B class rider is consistently beating the A riders and

several AAs.

I'm a solid B rider, and I have beat A riders (when we are in the same race time),

but I hardly see A guys beat AAs. Usually one or two FAST A guys will beat

an AA, but NEVER a B guy beats an AA.

In my 12 years of riding, I have never heard of such thing. Either (a) your son is

a prodigy (and a serious sandbagger), (? your district isn't very good (since

B racers are beating the AAs), or © you are full of it.

[Procon]

I Have no fancy explaination of it other than he tried his first and only Hare Scramble in 2006 (really liked it) and decided to race a full series the next year (2007) to see how good he could do and how much he could better himself. In his first C class race in 2006, he took third. We pretty much looked like the local red necks by running a bike way too tall in gearing, 4 year old tires, ATF fluid in leaking front forks and seldom fully functioning front brakes due to the oil all over the caliper mechanism. And the suspension was absolutely horrible.

We are talking the same thing, right? Hare Scrambles? That is what I am talking about.

In 2007 he took second in C class points (he was 16 years old). He and another racer went back and fourth in most races and my son took second last year and was not able to race two races due to a broken arm.

The district referee (at the 2007 racers banquet) said that there were three really good riders in C class and said they were being graduated to B class in the 2008 season. My son was one of the three riders. There was a fair bit of complaining (during the 2007 race season) by some of the other riders as they felt these three riders were too qualified to race C class. Being new to all this and wanting to run a full series (yet concerned we somehow weren't running the proper class), the district referee said we were simply doing extremely well for beginners.

At the beginning of this race season (2008), one of the three graduated racers elected to go to A class (didn't do well) and simply did not seem to compare to my sons race results. The other rider rode B class and too resulted in poorer results than expected. My son often caught (B class starts 2 minutes behind A class) and lapped one of last years graduated races that went to A class.

My sons race results are on RPAOffroad.com Search for Brian Messerschmidt and the results can be reviewed at your leasure.

Rick Anschutz (the District Race Hare Scramble Referee) does think fovorably enough of my son that he strongly engourage him to run AA in the 2009 race season.

Prodigy? Doubtful. But the riding snowmobiles in Wisconsin (off season motorcyle) didn't hurt him by any means. He rides a snomobile just like a dirt bike... simply keeping a higher average speed than the other riders. A common theme is to keep corner speed up.

Bad or poor district races? I have nothing to compare, but other riders in AA have sought him out and opened dialogue that they think he is a really good rider and also encouraged him to run AA next year. He just looks real good riding a bike and doesn't expend a buch of energy riding it. He rides the bike, but doesn't 'drive' it. He has run against other District riders and OMA guys and does well there too.

Am I a BSer? Quite often a joker, but can always back a statement up when I do say I am talking seriously. He raced his first Hare Scramble National this fall and took first in his class (250B) and placed 7th. overall. After the National (it was his first 3 hour race), he came to me saying he can surely run faster on the 2 hour courses for next year. He has phenominal endurance. I have seen racers being very fatigued at one hour and my son takes his helmet off after the two hours but a little sweat on his side burns.

Did I mention (I know I didn't), but two of his races this year, he ran with absolutely no rear brake (brake master cylinder failures). With these types of adversities, He and I debrief after each race. We extract the components we can better ourselves and beging preparing for the next race. I can say with certainty that having no rear brake has made him a better racer from those two events.... he really understands front brake modulation, corner entry\compression, and has gotten over the simply fear of coming into a corning too fast and believes in the bike, Himself, suspension, and tires.

All said and done, I think that his willingness to take constructive criticism from me is an an exceptional characteristic. This is almost unheard of between a 17 year old and his father. In the last few races of this season, he also bloomed as a more agressive (yet highly tactical) racer. Racer agressiveness was probably the hardest thing I had was to keep my cool. I could see him racing, but not at his potential had he been more keyed on the race. Developing him without me getting too hard and pressing to go faster always took a bunch of restraint. Had it been Myself and My Father, I would have given up racing as my Father thinks the only way to race is to go not fast, but faster.... never taking into account that there is 120 minutes to displace ones energy reserves. Racing is also exploiting oneselves strengths and the other racers weaknesses (something he learned in his last four races).

He did recently run a Yamaha YZ250F and I can say with confidence he looked even smoother and considerably faster than on his 2002 Honda CR250R. We can't believe how well the Yamaha suspensions work! He also rode a 2008 Yamaha YZ250 and if we could place him on one of them, I think we could leveage even more.

Thinking we'd ever get to a professional racing level? Highly unlikely (although an old Pro racer said to me that my son has the most natual talent he has ever seen in the 35+ years that he raced). We are hopeful to be the local fast guy that others to aspire to beat.

We share everything we have learned with those wanting that type of information. It is no fun racing if you do not have stiff competition.

If you are at all interested in how methodic we are, PM me and I can send you an Excel spreadsheet of our race analysis to get a better idea of how we think. To get a good idea of how we ride, that is another thing. On each race, I did video archiving (digital camera). We spent a considerable amount of time analyzing them too.

One other thing I can say with confidence is: There is always someone faster that ones self. But, being able to hang with the guy who just passed you for a bit is exciting. What is even more exciting is to have the same racer pass you a few races later and you can hang with them. The ultimate... catch that racer that is really good and eventually pass them and hold your position or open a gap! That is what turns my sons crank.

[NorCal]

I Have no fancy explaination of it other than he tried his first and only Hare Scramble in 2006 (really liked it) and decided to race a full series the next year (2007) to see how good he could do and how much he could better himself. In his first C class race in 2006, he took third. We pretty much looked like the local red necks by running a bike way too tall in gearing, 4 year old tires, ATF fluid in leaking front forks and seldom fully functioning front brakes due to the oil all over the caliper mechanism. And the suspension was absolutely horrible.

We are talking the same thing, right? Hare Scrambles? That is what I am talking about.

In 2007 he took second in C class points (he was 16 years old). He and another racer went back and fourth in most races and my son took second last year and was not able to race two races due to a broken arm.

The district referee (at the 2007 racers banquet) said that there were three really good riders in C class and said they were being graduated to B class in the 2008 season. My son was one of the three riders. There was a fair bit of complaining (during the 2007 race season) by some of the other riders as they felt these three riders were too qualified to race C class. Being new to all this and wanting to run a full series (yet concerned we somehow weren't running the proper class), the district referee said we were simply doing extremely well for beginners.

At the beginning of this race season (2008), one of the three graduated racers elected to go to A class (didn't do well) and simply did not seem to compare to my sons race results. The other rider rode B class and too resulted in poorer results than expected. My son often caught (B class starts 2 minutes behind A class) and lapped one of last years graduated races that went to A class.

My sons race results are on RPAOffroad.com Search for Brian Messerschmidt and the results can be reviewed at your leasure.

Rick Anschutz (the District Race Hare Scramble Referee) does think fovorably enough of my son that he strongly engourage him to run AA in the 2009 race season.

Prodigy? Doubtful. But the riding snowmobiles in Wisconsin (off season motorcyle) didn't hurt him by any means. He rides a snomobile just like a dirt bike... simply keeping a higher average speed than the other riders. A common theme is to keep corner speed up.

Bad or poor district races? I have nothing to compare, but other riders in AA have sought him out and opened dialogue that they think he is a really good rider and also encouraged him to run AA next year. He just looks real good riding a bike and doesn't expend a buch of energy riding it. He rides the bike, but doesn't 'drive' it. He has run against other District riders and OMA guys and does well there too.

Am I a BSer? Quite often a joker, but can always back a statement up when I do say I am talking seriously. He raced his first Hare Scramble National this fall and took first in his class (250B) and placed 7th. overall. After the National (it was his first 3 hour race), he came to me saying he can surely run faster on the 2 hour courses for next year. He has phenominal endurance. I have seen racers being very fatigued at one hour and my son takes his helmet off after the two hours but a little sweat on his side burns.

Did I mention (I know I didn't), but two of his races this year, he ran with absolutely no rear brake (brake master cylinder failures). With these types of adversities, He and I debrief after each race. We extract the components we can better ourselves and beging preparing for the next race. I can say with certainty that having no rear brake has made him a better racer from those two events.... he really understands front brake modulation, corner entry\compression, and has gotten over the simply fear of coming into a corning too fast and believes in the bike, Himself, suspension, and tires.

All said and done, I think that his willingness to take constructive criticism from me is an an exceptional characteristic. This is almost unheard of between a 17 year old and his father. In the last few races of this season, he also bloomed as a more agressive (yet highly tactical) racer. Racer agressiveness was probably the hardest thing I had was to keep my cool. I could see him racing, but not at his potential had he been more keyed on the race. Developing him without me getting too hard and pressing to go faster always took a bunch of restraint. Had it been Myself and My Father, I would have given up racing as my Father thinks the only way to race is to go not fast, but faster.... never taking into account that there is 120 minutes to displace ones energy reserves. Racing is also exploiting oneselves strengths and the other racers weaknesses (something he learned in his last four races).

He did recently run a Yamaha YZ250F and I can say with confidence he looked even smoother and considerably faster than on his 2002 Honda CR250R. We can't believe how well the Yamaha suspensions work! He also rode a 2008 Yamaha YZ250 and if we could place him on one of them, I think we could leveage even more.

Thinking we'd ever get to a professional racing level? Highly unlikely (although an old Pro racer said to me that my son has the most natual talent he has ever seen in the 35+ years that he raced). We are hopeful to be the local fast guy that others to aspire to beat.

We share everything we have learned with those wanting that type of information. It is no fun racing if you do not have stiff competition.

If you are at all interested in how methodic we are, PM me and I can send you an Excel spreadsheet of our race analysis to get a better idea of how we think. To get a good idea of how we ride, that is another thing. On each race, I did video archiving (digital camera). We spent a considerable amount of time analyzing them too.

One other thing I can say with confidence is: There is always someone faster that ones self. But, being able to hang with the guy who just passed you for a bit is exciting. What is even more exciting is to have the same racer pass you a few races later and you can hang with them. The ultimate... catch that racer that is really good and eventually pass them and hold your position or open a gap! That is what turns my sons crank.

So in conclusion, would you, or your son for that matter, recommend the

Scotts or GPR stablizer?

[Procon]

Look at this very post, There are several replies I posted. I think Page 2 gives you a little more perspective from our side (experience).

Basically, we went with GPR. I think this is purely a personal choice (as to what brand and model) as most people who get a stabilizer seem to result in them saying they prefer it installed rather than not.

I and my son have been successful in making 'on the fly' adjustments very well with the GPR (with its large single knob).

If you feel confident and well versed with the concept of slow and fast speed damping, the Scotts may be the better choice for your needs.

I'd suggest first maximizing your suspension and getting the most out of your riding technique. Some guys feel that the stabilizers help with headshake (we are strong believers especially with the bike we have), but the actual issue originates with an improperly adjusted suspension. Make sure the infamous steering stem bearing is torqued within operation specifications.

KTM (I believe) has GPR OEM their stabilizers (although may be specifically valved for KTMs).

When I called GPR, one of the engineers I talked to said that each stabilizer is damped specific to its intended use (street, dirt, ATV etc...)

I tried to order from Parts Unlimited, but was told they no longer have the off road kits. I was later told that the dealer can special order a kit if they know what they need. I ended up calling GPR and talking to an engineer and felt the discussion was worth paying their listed prie and they shipped the same day. you may be able to find discounting from several dealers or online sources (most online sources said they would have to order and I didn't want to wait 5-10 business days).

All said and done, the steering dampers are very subjective and each person will have their own opinion of each. I would be inclined to say that whatever one you get, you may be surprised at how well they all perform in their basic function.

[watermoccasin]

Scotts is the original and still the best. It has the most sophisticated damping circuits (separate high and low speed) and the most adjustability. You can make it feel the way you want it to (I set mine up with very little low-speed damping for a light, unrestricted feel that still saves your bacon when you get deflected by a hidden rock at high speed). You can adjust how far from center the damper acts (makes a big difference on tight switchbacks), and your corrective movements back to center are unhindered. I have ridden friends' bikes with GPRs and absolutely hated the feel - way too much low-speed damping and hate having to fight the damper to return the wheel to center. Have also ridden a friend's bike with a Motosportz damper - it looks cool and I didn't hate it, but didn't like it as much as the Scotts. If you want to make your Scotts feel like a GPR or Motorsportz, you can. But you can't make the other dampers feel like a Scotts. As for the Ohlins damper, they partnered with Scotts for a while, stole the design, and are now making it under their name.

[kinada423]

Didn't ohlins make and help design the scotts product and are now simply not bound by contract and started to make their own?

Can you backup that statement so we all understand a bit more about the scotts vs gpr vs motosportz vs ohlins damper debate?\

[zimak]

I've ridden both Scotts and GPR in fast desert environments. I'm not a racer type but I couldnt tell a difference. I could definately tell a difference between a bike with one and without, especially in those top end of 4th gear down in a wash and a hidden rock jumps up and slaps you around.

That said the customer support from Scotts is second to none.

My example: I went to reclock the needle knob on my Scotts a while back. Didnt bother looking at the manual just did a redneck too much beer in the garage move. Lost the little setscrew and super tiny ball bearing dropped to the floor and instanlty vanished.

Called Scotts and had a new of each delivered to my door 2 days later.....free of charge! (Well not completely free, the Scotts rep did give me some sh*t about taking it apart...but was all just in good fun)