Takegawa superhead 115 kit

[cthomas]

Well, long story here... But here it goes. Ordered my kit from Two Brothers a short time ago. When I ordered it I talked to the tech support guy and asked specific questions (mentioned in previous post) about the kit. One question was about its bolt on nature. I asked twice if all the stock honda styled parts would bolt to this head (pipes - intake manifold, etc...). the tech support fella said it would. They recommended the 28mm carb kit they offer for the kit, but said my 24 mm 200X carb with the stock manifold would bolt up, it just wouldn't be the most flow for the buck. That was fine, I would upgrade later if needed when I could afford it. My kit came in a timely manner and it was awesome looking. the head is very trick. My new crank finally showed up and it was time to put the beast together. Everything went together well, inspite of the instructions being in japanese only, you just had to look closely enough to find the things like valve settings. SWEET, this is going to be cool. So me and the kiddo load the engine into the frame for final reassembly. Get the engine in and the electrics hooked up, shifter on, and go to mount the carb... No workie.

The stock manifold bolts to the head, BUT the head intake manifold surface is at at different angle, shooting the carb out into the breeze. RATS...

Sooo I call Two Brothers this morning and talk with tech support, and they say "Oh no, you MUST buy the 28mm PE Keihn carb kit, it GOES with the super head kit (another $260).

Rats again, well he admitted to the product being new and they are still testing, blah, blah, and he is sorry I was misinformed about the compatability with the stock manifold and the head. I told him I had a source for the 28mm PE and wanted the option to buy the special manifold to mount it. He was insistant that they could not possibly get the manifold seperately. well after some time he finally said he would do his best and ask the Takegawa folks to get one seperately.

Grrrr.

Now I will probably end up making a manifold for this thing, or worse I will end up spending ANOTHER $300 on this project I had not planned on. I wish they knew enough to be more up front about the requirement that you must buy the carb kit with the big bore kit.

More on this saga later when I figure out what the hell I am gonna do.

Oh yea, Phil. I know you ordered the kit also and I don't see the carb and manifold in your pictures. Are you in the same boat or do you have a carb?

[cthomas]

BTW, I am not slamming Takegawa or Two Brothers, (yet) I just wish I knew more up front so I would have been prepared.

[minifig-phil]

Man that bites!

I just bought a 26mm carb from a XR200. Is it possible to machine the intake side of the head to the same angle of the stock head? The 28mm carb kit that TB sells is just plain too big me thinks.

Did you get an oil cooler to work?

[1_wicked_five_O]

Hey I recommend you give Lyle at classic minitrail in Tyler Tx a call 903-509-2727 I bet he will solve your problem !

[cthomas]

It would be easier to make a new intake manifold I would think... It may be hard to measure how much angle to take off the head, plus I would rather mess up a $2 piece of aluminum than my new $650 head. It won't do us 200 carb users much good if they split up the intake manifold seperately because theirs is for a round spigot style carb, ours are the two bolt flange style. Either way, if you are not adept at making a custom intake manifold, you are stuck with buying another carb.

I got the measurements and made a simplified set upp for the longer banjo bolt - plug set up. I made a stopper the same size as the plug end and threaded the hole that runs through it so I can extract it if I need to. I picked up two junkyard banjo bolts and cut the longer one so it just butts up against the plug. My buddy has a 15% discount on The Jagg oil cooler (Click here--Harley Cooler is the same, just has sticker on it) It has the lines and mounts that can be modded to install. All I need are two banjo fittings to complete that deal.

Is the guy in Tyler a Takegawa dealer?!?! Would love to keep it in Texas!!!

[minifig-phil]

I was just thinking that it wouldn't work to remachine the head because the screw holes won't be Perpendicular to the face anymore and if you have to retap holes and stuff it would be a real mess.

Here is the url for Clasic Honda He seems to be a Takegawa dealer but doesn't list anything for the XR80/100. He is in Texas. I did get him to price me an inner rotor ignition for the XR100, $400 ouch!

So I guess your a Colin Edwards fan then?

Go Colin!!

[cthomas]

After this season, how could anyone NOT be a Colin Edwards fan, Bayliss too for that matter. Two warriors getting it like madmen to the last lap to settle it. Too great. Met Colin at Laguna with my family, he had folks telling him it was time to go and he insisted on signing an autograph and posing for a trademark tounge out Picture with my kid. He also made it to the CMRA (our race club where he statrted) banquet this year with Kevin Schwantz. We are lucky around here, The CMRA got Freddy Spencer, John Kosinski, Kevin Schwantz, Doug Polen, Colin Edwards, AND Nicky Hayden their road racing beginings. I am sure I left someone out, oh well.

I am looking forward to this years Moto GP, rooting for Colin and Nicky, they are in for a tough year, but it will be awesome.

[minifig-phil]

Being an ex roadracer for 10 years that’s where my love really lies. I can't wait for the Moto GP season either. This is the first time since Rainey, Lawson Schwantz, Mamola and Spencer Era that Americans have a strong field in GP.

I think Edwards is at a disadvantage though (being on the Aprillia) Honda really shafted him which is very unlike Honda usually they take real good care of there riders even after they retire. I really hope Edward or Hayden or even Hopkins now (Factory Suzuki) beats Rossi. It’s going to be an awesome year!!

I scaned this out of a minicycle mag from /83 before he was a tornado. Maybe just a breeze. Colin Edwards

[ACS]

Thats a bit of a pain with the manifold angle. Its strange that its different as the Ape in Japan is pretty well the same as the XR100. Even the intake/airboot looks the same.

With the 28mm Kehin you may have trouble with the airboot as if its like the one off the CR80 it needs to be used with a pod aircleaner as the bellmouth dia is bigger than stock carbs. Check that out with the Two Bros guys. Are you guys using pods or airboot? I always used pods on the XR80. The CRF100 works much better. It looks like that if i get one that mods might be necessary to the CRF. If you want to do a simple mount for a spigot carb and at an angle use a intake manifold rubber off a Honda 4 cyl road bike. They use 28mm carbs on the 750 and there is a number of different angle tubes to match up to a simple manifold. Thats what my CRF uses. I can give you more info if you are intrested. Kawasakis etc use avery similar tube.

My guy has the Kitaco ign on order and should be here in a week. I'm paying a lot more than that price Phil...... Aussie peso is worth nothing..... ?

Still having trouble getting price and availability of the head/barrel.

[1_wicked_five_O]

Yes Tyler Texas ! He also has carb manifold adapters that allow different angles...

[socalxr]

We bought two kits and we were stoked on everything just like you were, until we noticed the intake port angle as well. Hopefully we'll have a manifold in the next couple weeks. With all the 200 stuff we're doing that project is on the back burner.

[minifig-phil]

socalxr Please let us know what you guys come up with.

What 200 project are you working on now?

[cthomas]

That article on Edwards is too funny. He was destined to be a road racer, look at him hang off the INSIDE of that dirt bike.

[socalxr]

minifig-phil,

CR80/XR200 conversion.

[cthomas]

Follow up post here.

I ran my engine for the first time this weekend. Here is what I kinow so far. The intake manifold is NOTHING SPECIAL... It is a standard rubber intake that has the 57.2mm center to center bolt spacing. These will accomodate most 26-28mm carbs with the spigot mounting. I got mine at the local cycle salvage for $8. this did not cure my carb problems though. I had a 200 carb with the flange style mount. Soooo we made an aluminum adapter to mount that carb. I also investigated as much as I could on the Keihin PE 28 that Takegawa recommends for their kit. As best as I can tell, this is the same carb as the PE68D-A ($92 from service honda) that is on all the late model CR80's. The Honda brochures list the carb as a Keihin PE 28 then in parenthesis list it as a PE68D-A (more on this in a moment)...

OK the 200 carb with the Takegawa kit runs real well. It does not have quite the low to mid pull of my friends 120, but from the mid to the top it out pulls it. This engine is a screamer and seems to not be for the squeemish. We did a track day yesterday at a local road race track and mine would pull the 16-40 gearing on the longest straight no problem. I could draft and pull the 120 anytime, but you need to wring its little neck to get it going that way. The problem with this setup is the adapter adds a bit of installed length so the carb sits back about a 1/2 inch and you must use a pod air filter. this gets in the way of the side panel. It would take some doing to get the filter and side panel happy with each other.

The 80 carb. My kiddo has a 2001 Cr80 Expert and I swiped it for R&D purposes. The motor with the 28 mm carb has the potential to be a completely different beast. The jetting was very far off, but between the sputs and sputters this thing would hit and tear your arms outta socket. I am going to experiment with setting up the 80 carb to see if I can get it close. It has potential to be incredible. I don't know if the 2 stroke carb jetting is that different or if i am missing some other aspect of a two stroke carb that makes it run funky. Is there anyone out there that has jetted a CR80 carb to run on a modded four stroke??

If i can make an 80 carb and an $8 manifold work, I will save $160 off the Takegawa price for these two items. Any thoughts??

[minifig-phil]

ACS has experience with 2 stroke carbs on the XR.

I thought it was going to be quite top endie (is that a word?).

Please let us know how it works out.

What 200 carb where you using? the 200x 24mm or the XR200 26mm?

I'm wondering if this head will make the 150cc stroker motor come to life.

What cam did you use?

[ACS]

ctthomas the CR80 carb can be made to work. I have two of them but never put in the time to jet them fully and the bellmouth doesnt fit into the TTR125 boot and you know about the pod for the XR. On the TTR the CR carb needle seems too rich at the 0 to 1/2 throttle and main jet too big. I dropped the main jet a fair few sizes and got one working on the TTR OK but it needed more jetting and I gave up. I think that the jetting for a XR would be similar as the jetting between my two is not radically different with the Mikuni carbs

One of the kids raced last year with one on a XR100 motor in our grass track mx series that was jetted well but it just reved and the kid went slower over the series. He was 2nd early on then like went to 12th by the end. It had no bottom to mid to pull through out of corners. It was geared too low as well but it did carburate well in a "technical" sense. I had the feeling it was a motor that had been set up on a dyno but didn't translate well to the track.

On one of the japanese web sites they list the starting point jetting for the CR carb on a XR100 in a hybrid site as it seems popular over there to use the CR carb Takewagama might have it in their spares lists. I will have a look around.

[cthomas]

I rooted around on the Takegawa site and the english version is very limited. The Japanese side however is very detailed, problem is... It's in Japanese, EXCEPT for part names and numbers. So, under Keihin PE28 you find 115cc - 124cc and #35 and #105...

Yahoo!

I went to the shop and picked 'em up and ran it last night.

It is VERY close. It needs a bit of tuning on the needle height to smooth the transition (its a bit rich there) but this set up SCREAMS!!! If you get the superhead kit, BUY THE 28mm CARB.

Here is what I put together.

http://www.sudco.com/ Go to Mikuni Rubber Carb Flanges and get the one for the 57.2mm bolt spacing.

Get a CR80 carb (Keihin PE68D-A) and rejet to a #35 pilot and #105 main as a start, I am at 40 degrees, 600 ft and high humidity and it is very close. (stock on this carb is a #50 pilot, and #124 main.)

You will need to get a pod filter set up of some sort.

This combo rocks the Takegawa kit. It is a completely different motor with this carb. It has twice the mid range it did before, and the top revs til you get squeemish. I have a buddy who wants to share some Dyno time soon and we will see what this really does.

[ACS]

Excellent result. I looked at the two carbs I have last night and the one I used came off a very highly modified bike and main jet was 135 which is way bigger than a 124 and a 45 pilot. The other carb which I got recently has same jets as yours started with. The needles are different to in the one I tried as well. Looks richer than the stock one. Base line jetting is always a problem when you stuff around with carbs. I had a 115 main I tried with 45 pilot and thats probably why it was still rich. My tests were on the TTR which would need a bit different jetting but at least it gives us a good starting point. Might have to wander off and get some jets as the second CRF is getting closer to build and I might set that one up with the Kehin carb. ? If you work out a better needle let us know.

[socalxr]

Does anyone know what nozzel Takegawa uses for the PE28? I think that might be key as well. That is key (or might be the key) to getting the jetting perfect, One of the main difference (besides the jetting in two stroke carbs and four strokes carbs is the nozzel. We still haven't done any work on our kits yet. We need to use our airboxes so we need to make a manifold.