Aoss Better Than Sss!

[Je_sper]

This is a tread for the AOSS fork, that is found on the 2005 yamaha 450.

I`m aiming to make this fork better than my friends 08 SSS fork!

We`ll se how it turns out!

First out is installing the ICS spring preload spacer, this is set at close to zero preload instead of having a large cap between the cap and the ICS spring.Preload is added, 7mm to the main spring. The first cahnge is to the valving in the midvalve and the rebound valving.

Weight is 190 pound.

Oil in both chamber is Castrol 2,5w

Outer 260cc

No change to the TCV initially.

Standard valving

Yzf 2005

Base

24x0.1(11)

22x0.1

20x0.1

18x0.1

16x0.1

14x0.1

11x0.25

Mid

float 0,356

16x0.1

22x0.1(3)

18x0.1

16x0.1

14x0.1

12x0.3

16x0.1

22x0.4

Rebound

21x0.1(4)

16x0.1

20x0.1

18x0.1

16x0.1

14x0.1

12x0.1

11x0.25

The valving that I`ll try for this weekend:

Mod nr 1

Yz 450,2005

Base

24x0.1(11)

22x0.1

20x0.1

18x0.1

16x0.1

14x0.1

11x0.25

Float 0,356

Mid

22x0.08(3)

18x0.08

16x0.08

14x0.08

12x0.3

16x0.08

16x0.08

22x0.4

Rebound

21x0.08(3)

16x0.08

21*0,08

20x0.08

18x0.08

16x0.08

14x0.08

12x0.08

11x0.25

So what do you guys think? I´ll ride it this weekend and give a report back, But I`m curios about what you guys think...?

[mog]

basically you are going to remove the bleed shim, and lighten the rebound a little? it will be ok IMO but i cant see it being close to a SSS?

[aggiemoto99]

Are your units different between the two?

.08 vs .1????

I am having a hard time understanding what was done....but that's just me not reading it well.

[DaveJ]

Well...that's one heck of a post.

So I hate to say this but you're not going to notice much of a difference with those changes.

As long as the mid-valve is flopping around the oil is always going to take the path of least resistence, and you'll be right back to where you were when you started.

Clamp the mid-valve closed but still allow it to blow-off and you'll have something to chase you're friend down with.

[floting]

In my opinion you can make the 05AOS a very good fork but not better then SSS. Just take a look at the MV piston and you’ll see it’s a big difference and at the BV too.

Do change the TCV it will make the fork even better, but take care when removing lugs, don’t use too much heat, the pipe is plastic!

The biggest difference from stock will come from preloading the ICS. It’s good you took out the 16 bleed shim from MV. Strange that the stock rebound in the 250f euro modelis stiffer then your 450, it has 2 more 21 and the 12 is 0,15.

[Je_sper]

Mog, this is start! And at the start of anything I usually try to set a high goal.

But I do think (so far) that it`s possible to make the aoss as good and hopefully better than a stock SSS ?

Dave

I´ve seen the del taco offering and I think it´s ok, but my previous fork modifications have turned out rather well with just float adjusments and valving changes, so I will have to go down this route first.

aggiemoto99

Thickness in base valve, not sure of yet as I started in the nidvalve, and the thickness of my shims are 0,08mm, referred to as 0,10 in the standard valving specification.

floting

The most striking difference as far as I can see between aoss and sss is the change in valve body diameter,the SSS where the mid relations versus the basevalve is 20/32=0,625, but in the AOSS its 22/24=0,92 , but i think it (so far) can be made to work very well!

Not sure if I will remove the tcv or if I will just drill more holes in it.

What do you guys think is the biggest hurdel in making the aoss as good as the sss are?

?

[mog]

i will have to admit my best showa is a tad off my best sss , so i cant say how you can beat the sss with the aos.I think good valving etc will make it a very decent fork, but nothing more(or less)

kyb didnt throw a bunch of money at redesigning the TC fork without good reason?

[floting]

You don’t have to remove or drill the TCV pipe, just take out the ring.

[Bushmechanic]

can we see a pic please floting?

and ahm .... what does the TCV do or not do that makes things better when its removed?

[russ17]

can we see a pic please floting?

and ahm .... what does the TCV do or not do that makes things better when its removed?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/russ17/DSCN0063.jpg

[harrperf]

I feel the oil height too high....anything over 240 on those and they begin to get harsh.

[floting]

can we see a pic please floting?

and ahm .... what does the TCV do or not do that makes things better when its removed?

The TCV pipe is the one posted by Russ, thank you Russ ?

The TCV with the plastic ring, wich doesn’t appear in the picture, is braking the cartridge movement when it enters inside. If one remove the ring that it’s obstructing the expel of the oil trapped between cartridge and TCV pipe, the fork movement it’s more fluid and you don’t feel the fork like hitting something in the middle of the movement. More so if you have a soft valving. By living there the TCV pipe without ring you still have braking in that portion by viscous friction and oil pressure but not that much like with the ring.

[Je_sper]

The valving in the base was not as specified, this is what i found!

The fork was a lot better with the previous changes but nowhere close to the sss, so I tore into the fork today to change the valving and I found the base valving to be different than I posted!

BAse

24*0,10 (8)

22*0,10

20*0,10

18*0,10

16*0,10

14*0,10

11*0,25

End washer

Bleed shims

19*0,10 (6)

17*0,10

14*0,10

13*0,3

13*0,3

It´s kind of funny that the midvalve is almost the same as a 1995 Honda Cr 125 midvalve!!!?

So the proposed changes for next time is:

Base

24*0,10 (6)

22*0,10

20*0,10

18*0,10

16*0,10

14*0,10

11*0,25

End washer

Bleed shims

19*0,10 (6)

17*0,10

14*0,10

13*0,3

13*0,3

Midvalve

close float by 0,10 so from 0,356 , new float 0,256

22*0,10

22*0,08 (3)

18*0,08

18*0,08

18*0,08

11*0,25

14*0,10

Rebound

21x0.1(4)

13x0.1

18x0.1

18x0.1

16x0.1

14x0.1

12x0.1

11x0.25

Does the tcv really have that big effect on the performance of this fork? Do you guys think its worth the effort to remove/modify the tcv?

[mog]

i have read the tvc does have a effect on performance, so if you want it to be like a sss then you need to crack them open.I would soften the bleed stack a little, the 450f doesnt run one but the 250f does from memory, so they cant need that many bleed shims?

If you close up the float by 0.1mm you might want to soften the base more, it has a real effect on the total stiffness going to less float.

[Je_sper]

This is a 450 , and it runs a bleed stack, but Mog how do you feel about having float set around 0,25 in the aoss?

After looking at my specifications and your suggestions I will take your advise and go with this setting next time out!

Base

24*0,10 (4)

22*0,10

20*0,10

18*0,10

16*0,10

14*0,10

11*0,25

End washer

Bleed shims

19*0,10 (3)

17*0,10

14*0,10

13*0,3

13*0,3

I would really like to know even more about the tcv!?

Someone else beside harrperf think that going over 240 cc in the outer chamber will make this fork harsh? ?

[mog]

i think the newer 450s dont run the bleed stack, not got my notes with me.

I used to think 0.15-0.25mm was the optimum range for the TC forks, but recently i am not so sure, i want to try the del taco kit when its more finalised as i think the idea has real merit, you are limited with what you can do with the mid and make improvements, on the TVC, i think you should consider why no fork in use use one, they are a idea that didnt pan out, previous versions worked better, but that was on a old open bath showa fork, , i would look at the ss fork and see how it differs from the aos and try to see why.

[Je_sper]

The biggest difference that I can see is the spring seat and different valve sizes!? I was thinking that maybe I would take out the tcv and replace it with something like Pro circuits "national spring tubes".

I also think that the del taco modification could be really good, but I also want to wait for it to become a more finalized product. ?

[mog]

i wish i could help more, but i have seen a very limited number of these forks as they were not around too long, and the ones i have done, i did simple mods and the owners were happy with them, i dont think mine were as good as a sss either.

[Je_sper]

So after a long delay...

New 5,8kg rear shockspring

New 0,48 kg main springs

Thicker oil close to a 7,5 in both chambers.

Preloaded main spring 4mm

Preload ICS spring 0 mm

Oil outer 245ml

Basevalve: Standard

Mid

Float 0,3

Valving

22*0,11

22*0,08(2)

18*0,08

22*0,08

16*0,08

14*0,08

12*0,3

14*0,10

16*0,10

16*0,10

Rebound

Std

Testing this tomorrow, but does anyone want to predict how it`ll work in advance??? ?

[Je_sper]

Bought a pair of SSS forks and called it a day with the aoss forks..