Carb vs. Fuel Injection

[boisedave]

Now that fuel injection seems to be getting some traction, I'm wondering what you guys think -- is it really worth it?

From doing my research, its seems FI is the way to go because it [generally] has some ability to compensate for variations in temperature and elevation -- correct? So, assuming you get the FI system "mapped" correctly in the first place [i.e. to match your exhaust, cams, etc.] -- you should be able to forget about A/F mixture and just go ride -- right? Or is it more complicated than that?

But is it really that much less time intensive than a carb? Seems that "mapping" your FI is just like getting your jetting dialed in in the first place. Seems like a bit of a wash to me. Generally, don't carbs respond fairly well to all but the most drastic elevation and temp changes? Again -- sort of a wash? Seems to me that both systems require some work to get the most out of the bike. Maybe the biggest difference in reality is the fact you get gas all over you and you have to remove the damn subframe to get to a carb -- as opposed to plugging in some sort of connector?

In the end, I'm wondering if there is any benefit to the FI? I understand its coming, but is it worth seeking out a FI bike just because of the FI?

Thoughts guys?

Dave

[William1]

How good a particular FI is is dependant on the sensors. The more sensors, the greater the ability to self adjust. Once you have a good map, a full FI system will adjust for all conditions. But these sensors come with a penalty-Weight and Complexity. High end BMW street bikes have all or nearly all the sensors. Most of the MX bikes run the minimum and will need re-mapping for change.

[Wayward Son]

current japanese motorcycle fuel injection systems compensate for temp and alititude.

just like stock jetting usually isnt correct neither is the stock base map.

once it is corrected you forget about until you make a mod that effects air flow.you will then need to correct the map again.

[rkortes]

Here's a great argument for FI.... If you watched the Supercross race last weekdend, Ryan Vilapoto went down and got his FI Kawi 450 started in about a half a kick... Bubba couldn't start his carbed Yami.... out of race.... no points! I'm guessing he had a few words to his new sponsor after that little episode.

[gixxer1kr]

LMAO!!! I saw it on SPEED...They interviewed him asked him what happen. I CRASHED!!!! After that my next new toy will be FI...I was sketchy on FI when i bought my GSXR years back when FI was starting to come into the street bike scene and love it.Couldnt be happier...

[yz400fdude]

I've been wondering the same thing. As it stands right now I think its just one more thing that can go wrong. The throttle response might be a little better as well but I'm a c class rider at best and I don't think I could tell a difference. As for bubba having a tough time starting his bike that could of been several things.

[yz400fsmasher]

yeah he went down pretty hard and then windam hit him again. the only thing i like about fi is no more flooding if u lay er over

[yz400fdude]

No flooding would be a big plus, especially when racing. Usually though if I lay my bike over long enough for it to get flooded I won't be getting up and going in a hurry anyway...It has to be a pretty good wipe-out for me not to get the bike right back up. For right now I don't think I will pay the extra price over a 07-08 model.

[Drinkn_Buddy]

Another level of complexity... Carburetion and jetting have gotten really good over the years and the level of competency and tools needed to make basic adjustments is minimal, so i am not sold as of yet.

When i am riding in BFE, 250 miles away from civilization, the last thing i wan to worry about is my bike. I carry enough spares and tools to make me through just about anything. Don't know if i can fit EFI diagnostic equipment into my fender bag.

So, i guess i will pass on the new technology for now. I am happy with regularly asperated motors and would probably not gain any returns on my investment by going EFI.

[Wayward Son]

carrying efi diag stuff in the trunk of your car?

[Drinkn_Buddy]

Nope

But i dont tend to cartwheel my chevy of the sides of cliffs either.....

[yz400fdude]

The mags say the fuel injection is really smooth compared to the carbed bikes (no hesitation). If my bike hesitates I sure don't feel it but like I said I'm not a highly skilled rider. I would like to try out a FI bike though just to see for myself.

[Wayward Son]

there is no component on a fi bike that is any more prone to damage during a crash that a carbed bike.

FI is superior to carb in every way.

[Drinkn_Buddy]

there is no component on a fi bike that is any more prone to damage during a crash that a carbed bike.

FI is superior to carb in every way.

Anything can happen and usually at the worst time. I'm not saying that FI is not superior. What i am saying is that i can work on my carbed bike with a 50 cent socket and a cheap screwdriver and get great results that are repeatable.

Cant say that for FI. Dont have the expensive tools nor the knowledge and at this point, i tend to keep it simple. Carburetion over the years has gotten alot better from the old bings i used to have to contend with and quite honestly, i like the newer Keihin offerings and find them easy to tune.

As for no problems.... I've already seen it first hand. Lets just say that the new Husabergs dont like getting wet. We tried helping a guy out 3 weeks ago that had a water mishap. Needless to say, nobody in the group had any knowledge of it and could only offer him a tow. This is my initial impression and i personally dont wanna be that guy out in the middle of nowhere.

May be fine for some of you guys, but it is not my cup of tea. I might be giving up something in regards to sticking with a normally aspirated system, but i dont compete and the level at which i ride, it makes no difference. I rather feel secure in the knowledge that if my XR conks on me out in the middle of nowhere, i can get her running with a paper clip and some silly putty.

[Wayward Son]

husaberg? lol i assure you there will be none of that with the japanese FI set ups.

the fcr is the as good as a carb gets.but its got nothing for fuel injection.

you are just as likely to have a ignition issue on carb bike as you are to have a issue on a FI bike.

[ben williams]

In the marine industry, we have a problem with boats sitting for the winter and the gas in the injectors going bad/gumming up an injector. Not completelly blocking it, just enough to lean out the cylinder an cause damage. We told our customers to run stable or even Marvel Mystery Oil helps. I believe those systems run more psi (60) tan the bikes. The Suzuki is the only one that has been around long enough to have that happen. Has anybody heard of that happening?

[Drinkn_Buddy]

husaberg? lol i assure you there will be none of that with the japanese FI set ups.

the fcr is the as good as a carb gets.but its got nothing for fuel injection.

you are just as likely to have a ignition issue on carb bike as you are to have a issue on a FI bike.

That i know how to troubleshoot and fix, no worries there.....

All dirt bike applied FI versions are equally suspect in my eyes, i dont descriminate between japanese and scandanavian / euro (whoever the heck makes husaberg).

It's another level of complexity and expense in my book and for me and my riding habits, it's not needed and does not offer enough benefit for the extra amount spent. That expense is measured in both the extra monetary cost on the bike and the amount i will have to invest in tools and time to come to grips with tuning the new bikes.

Just the opinion of a 30 something cheep skate.

[ajd187]

Suzuki and Kawasaki have had FI on their 450 quads since 2007. Suzuki has it on the LTZ400 this year. Yamaha has put it on the YFZ450R this year.

These systems aren't untested in the dirt. They run in the about the same conditions on quads as they do on bikes. I haven't heard of any issues with it on the quads, and the only real difference is probably that the ones on the quads have a battery.

[Drinkn_Buddy]

Suzuki and Kawasaki have had FI on their 450 quads since 2007. Suzuki has it on the LTZ400 this year. Yamaha has put it on the YFZ450R this year.

These systems aren't untested in the dirt. They run in the about the same conditions on quads as they do on bikes. I haven't heard of any issues with it on the quads, and the only real difference is probably that the ones on the quads have a battery.

It is a machine and eventualy it will do what all machines do, FAIL. Probably at the most unappropriate moment also. If you are in the middle of nowhere, what are you going to do, call AAA???

I am only interjecting a new point of view to the discussion, that's all. I personally dont think the price is worth it when i can tune my normally aspirated bike to get simular results. Will EFI do it better, yeah it will, but i am not that picky about my jetting. I set it, go ride and adjust as needed. Not a big deal....

Reliability and knowing the systems on my bike are important to me and due to my experiences, i choose not to adopt the newest technology at this point. Especially if they also eliminate the freakin' kickstarter when they install all the EFI crap....

[ben williams]

I tend to fall in line with Drinkin Buddy. Nothing against technology, But for reliability its hard to beat a carb. I'm so old fashion, my ski boat still runs a mechanical fuel pump and a points style ignition. I know how reliable MSD's are. Ran one on my race boat. But people always come looking for me when they need a tow.