Carb vs. Fuel Injection

[Wayward Son]

rmz 450 and crf 450 are efi and kickstart.

the reability issue is just not there.

non understanding or ability to tune FI,ok.

[Wayward Son]

I tend to fall in line with Drinkin Buddy. Nothing against technology, But for reliability its hard to beat a carb. I'm so old fashion, my ski boat still runs a mechanical fuel pump and a points style ignition. I know how reliable MSD's are. Ran one on my race boat. But people always come looking for me when they need a tow.

i deal with carbs having "issues" way more than any efi issue.

using MSD as a comparison is pretty funny.

[ben williams]

i deal with carbs having "issues" way more than any efi issue.

using MSD as a comparison is pretty funny.

I wasn't so much comparing MSD to FI as much as showing my own reluctance for change. Hell up until last year, I was still riding "Ol Bessy " (yz490) and liking it. And still have her.

[Drinkn_Buddy]

rmz 450 and crf 450 are efi and kickstart.

the reability issue is just not there.

non understanding or ability to tune FI,ok.

I've been using Tunercat and a Moates programmer for years to tune my EFI equipped international scout. The only reason i installed EFI on it was for the challenge. So, i am no stranger at navigating the BIN files or logging data to evaluate changes.

I still do not think EFI is necessary.... I think it adds undue complexity to a system that already works fine. I am an average joe. I dont race, never plan on racing and tuning the last 10% from my motor is not a priority for me. As i stated earlier, carbs are simple devices and there is no mystery to their workings. If my bike wont start, i go to basics.... Is it getting fuel, is it getting fire. I dont want the complexity of checking to see if the ECU is getting it's 5 volt reference or it the XXX sensor is still operating within it's limits.

I ride and wrench for enjoyement. Plugging in my laptop to my offroad bike just seems wrong, and i guess a sign of the times...

[Drinkn_Buddy]

I wasn't so much comparing MSD to FI as much as showing my own reluctance for change. Hell up until last year, I was still riding "Ol Bessy " (yz490) and liking it. And still have her.

YZ490, Now that baby was a paint mixer.....

I think you should fuel inject Bessy. I hear it's the bees knees....

[Drinkn_Buddy]

Dbl Post

[ben williams]

YZ490, Now that baby was a paint mixer.....

I think you should fuel inject Bessy. I hear it's the bees knees....

I'll tell you what , that would be a good test for the reliability of all the efi units out there. I forgot how much Ol Bessy vibrated until I got on a new bike. I still get a kick out of riding her, nothing like an open class 2 stroke.?

[Drinkn_Buddy]

nothing like an open class 2 stroke.?

Amen brother.... When i strike uranium in my back yard, i plan on purchasing one of those fancy AF500's

I still love the smell of castor burning in the morning

[ben williams]

Amen brother.... When i strike uranium in my back yard, i plan on purchasing one of those fancy AF500's

I still love the smell of castor burning in the morning

Not only that, but because they are proned for detonation (yz490's) Ol Bessy only gets race gas. Smells really good.

[ajd187]

It is a machine and eventualy it will do what all machines do, FAIL. Probably at the most unappropriate moment also. If you are in the middle of nowhere, what are you going to do, call AAA???

I am only interjecting a new point of view to the discussion, that's all. I personally dont think the price is worth it when i can tune my normally aspirated bike to get simular results. Will EFI do it better, yeah it will, but i am not that picky about my jetting. I set it, go ride and adjust as needed. Not a big deal....

Reliability and knowing the systems on my bike are important to me and due to my experiences, i choose not to adopt the newest technology at this point. Especially if they also eliminate the freakin' kickstarter when they install all the EFI crap....

That is fair I suppose. I thought you were only saying that the EFI systems were untested off road and i was just saying that they have been, and proven fairly reliable also. Not like that Husky EFI mentioned in a previous post. These Japanese EFI systems have been on quads for a few years and on streetbikes for many. They are proven.

Personally I probably woudln't be able to fix a carb in the field either so I guess it makes no difference to me.

[DRX350]

Lemme ask you then, when was the last time you've had to adjust the carb linkage on your car? Anyone miss changing points on a car? How about having to replace the carb on your car at 70,000 miles?

Not me, it's only a matter of time before every single bike is FI. I like the idea of never ever changing a jet again... How about for dual sport, I like the idea of starting at sea level, ending at 9,000ft with out bogging, flooding, or any of that.

As to injectors getting clogged; just run it out of fuel like you do a carbed bike. I've ran my car out of gas several times, it fires right back up just like a bike would.

[Drinkn_Buddy]

Lemme ask you then, when was the last time you've had to adjust the carb linkage on your car? Anyone miss changing points on a car? How about having to replace the carb on your car at 70,000 miles?

Not me, it's only a matter of time before every single bike is FI. I like the idea of never ever changing a jet again... How about for dual sport, I like the idea of starting at sea level, ending at 9,000ft with out bogging, flooding, or any of that.

As to injectors getting clogged; just run it out of fuel like you do a carbed bike. I've ran my car out of gas several times, it fires right back up just like a bike would.

I dont have to adjust my linkage that often, plugging in a vaccum gauge and setting the mixture screws is a different story. But, then again, i enjoy it.

A better question would be how many people know how to set dwell and to properly tune a quadrajet.

If you dont enjoy wrenching and you ride such elevational changes, then yes, EFI just may be the thing for you.

Let me pose a question back to you. Why do you suppose that the majority of high power / high RPM automotive race engines are still normally asperated?? When you come up with an answer, post it back up.....

[DRX350]

I dont have to adjust my linkage that often, plugging in a vaccum gauge and setting the mixture screws is a different story. But, then again, i enjoy it.

A better question would be how many people know how to set dwell and to properly tune a quadrajet.

If you dont enjoy wrenching and you ride such elevational changes, then yes, EFI just may be the thing for you.

Let me pose a question back to you. Why do you suppose that the majority of high power / high RPM automotive race engines are still normally asperated?? When you come up with an answer, post it back up.....

I've got a secret for ya, Natural Aspiration is without turbo or super, not what fuel delivery system it has.

Top fuel, Pro Stock, Funny Car, Le Mans, Indy car, F1, and even Pro Comp Eliminator cars are all FI

I love to wrench, just not while I ride...

[ben williams]

I dont have to adjust my linkage that often, plugging in a vaccum gauge and setting the mixture screws is a different story. But, then again, i enjoy it.

A better question would be how many people know how to set dwell and to properly tune a quadrajet.

If you dont enjoy wrenching and you ride such elevational changes, then yes, EFI just may be the thing for you.

Let me pose a question back to you. Why do you suppose that the majority of high power / high RPM automotive race engines are still normally asperated?? When you come up with an answer, post it back up.....

I can set dwell, I can tune a q-jet (pain) I'm probably just showing my age. NHRA doesn't allow efi in pro stock, I don't think nascar does either. Not that familiar with nascar stuff thoe. As far as the range of self adjustability, the bikes would do better with a closed loop system. (I think I have that right) Like a new car, with an o2 censer. I saw Eddie talking about a hop up system like that in another thread. As far keeping itself running perfect that would be the way to go.

[Drinkn_Buddy]

Yeah, what i was going for here is simplicity....

When you get into exotic fuels and really high rpms there are other things that need to be addressed and are not really part of this debate.

I've stated my point of view on this and now i'm done. It's a new and interesting technology in our little world and wether or not you embrace it or pass on it is truely a matter of personal preference. I did not enter into this trying to sway opinion, only to add another point of view, the point of view from the garage hack that enjoys wrenching as much as he does riding.

[Russ Henry]

That is fair I suppose. I thought you were only saying that the EFI systems were untested off road and i was just saying that they have been, and proven fairly reliable also. Not like that Husky EFI mentioned in a previous post. These Japanese EFI systems have been on quads for a few years and on streetbikes for many. They are proven.

Personally I probably woudln't be able to fix a carb in the field either so I guess it makes no difference to me.

My efi Husky has been flawless. I have only heard of one pump failure and some of the bikes were not in spec when they got to the dealers. The dealers just hooked them up to the i-beat software and set them to the correct parameters and all is good. I weigh 240 before gear and have been running the crap out of this bike for over 2,000 offroad miles. It runs crisp and clean all the time. I did my first valve check at 2,000 miles. The valves and compression were in spec.?

[ben williams]

I too am not trying to poo-poo fi. Just trying to lightheartedly explain why it's not for me on my dirtbike. Heck I'm just now learning how to use this newfangled contraption to talk to you guys.