How do I get past my mind set to drift a corner?

[kneedragginchick]

Great pictures. I can look at supermoto pictures all day long. Good information also.

[gear grinder]

Great pictures. I can look at supermoto pictures all day long. Good information also.

Thanks, Theres more at MIKESMITHSUPERMOTO.COM

[laohu69]

I've been ridding for quite a few years. My present bike (XR650L) is my first dual sport. I've done stoppies and of course wheelies but drifting corners is giving me problems.

I've done it a couple times with out trying. Both times were to avoid kissing the fender / bumper of some idiot who ran a red light. But I don't know how I did it. It went down something like;

'OH CRAP!!! No time for breaks. TURN NOW !! Don't lay it down... Don't lay it down... I lived through it...... and cool I think I drifted the turn'.

But to try and repeat the action with the intent of causing a controlled skid in a turn is vexing me.

I figure the folks in this forum should be familiar with the technique. Any thoughts?

I didn't read the whole thread so this may have alrewady been mention. 2 words- American Supercamp?

www.americansupercamp.com

[gear grinder]

I am going to the Supercamp in Calistoga this weekend!?

[heybuddy1901]

I am going to the Supercamp in Calistoga this weekend!?

lucky SOB!

[BSR-1]

I am going to the Supercamp in Calistoga this weekend!?

maybe you could conceal a camera & let us all go to camp!

[heybuddy1901]

maybe you could conceal a camera & let us all go to camp!

im liking this idea

[gear grinder]

Thae camp was great! I learned alot and you get a bunch of seat time. Danny and the rest of the crew are great and really stay on you to break bad habits. They even use video to help you see what you are doing wrong or sometimes even right. Some pics are on the way will post later. I was able to get into the camp by applying for the Ethan Gillim "Chasing a dream" Scholorship, but I definatly think it is worth every penney of full price.?

[dilettante]

Question: what is "trail braking?"

[achap]

Question: what is "trail braking?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking

[dilettante]

Oh. I see. Thanks, achap.

Bear with me here. I'm 30 years old and I started riding last September. What I'd like to know is how you can accurately manipulate the front brake AND the throttle at the same time?! Any tips?

[VTRDarren]

Oh. I see. Thanks, achap.

Bear with me here. I'm 30 years old and I started riding last September. What I'd like to know is how you can accurately manipulate the front brake AND the throttle at the same time?! Any tips?

In my experience on the track , I'm either on the gas or hard on the brakes, not both.. Especially in the context of backing-it-in, you're on the brakes and feathering out the clutch with the throttle closed... once you hit the apex you're off the brakes and back on the gas.

[achap]

Oh. I see. Thanks, achap.

Bear with me here. I'm 30 years old and I started riding last September. What I'd like to know is how you can accurately manipulate the front brake AND the throttle at the same time?! Any tips?

no disrespect intended... i just thought that link would explains things much better than I could. I'm also a novice/intermediate rider... started on the street a while back, took a break, now riding primarily on the dirt and a little supermoto.

I don't understand when you would want to apply the front brake and throttle at the same time, so I couldn't answer that... I think by the time you need the throttle you would be off the front brake... and I would think close to finished if not completely finished with the rear brake too. What do the rest of you think?

[dilettante]

I thought that the down-shifting was accompanied by opening the throttle to run the revs up in an attempt to spin the rear wheel loose from the tarmac; and that this was all happening during trail braking.

achap, I was not offended by your response at all. I just felt kinda stupid for not looking up trail braking in wikipedia myself.*sheepish grin*

[achap]

I thought that the down-shifting was accompanied by opening the throttle to run the revs up in an attempt to spin the rear wheel loose from the tarmac; and that this was all happening during trail braking.

achap, I was not offended by your response at all. I just felt kinda stupid for not looking up trail braking in wikipedia myself.*sheepish grin*

I was thinking it was more like...

downshift... downshift... braaaaaaaaaaaake... apex.... gaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssss.... upshift... upshift....

not trying to be a smart ass... do people really downshift in the middle of a turn?

[heybuddy1901]

not trying to be a smart ass... do people really downshift in the middle of a turn?

people that dont know, yes.

ive seen it a couple times at the local sumo track..

ppl would downshift 2 or 3 gears and DUMP the clutch, hear this god aweful noise everytime they would go into the corner off the straight.

do it enough times and your bound to end up on your butt

[laohu69]

I'll try and answer a couple of the questions. Bear in mind that I am just an Amateur level racer so my answers are probably not correct, just what I have learned from my experience and what works for me at my current skill level.

As to downshifting in corners, I only do it if I've screwed up and either shifted to the wrong gear to begin with or alllowed my revs to drop too much and need to get into my power band. I know from memory which gear I need to be in for a particular corner at each track and just automatically downshift without thinking about it.

I trail brake a lot of the time. I don't really use it for turning purposes, as the wiki article explained, but to get the bike slowed down enough to be able to make the turn without running wide / off the track. I do use it for the sharper steering geometry with the forks compressed, I also allow for the change in geometry when I get off the brakes and on the gas.

I have been known to trail brake with the front & be on the gas at the same time. Usually this winds up with me high siding ? beacuse I'm trying to do too many things and run out of talent. The only times I can ever recall actually doing this is when I am overtaking a slower rider into the corner who takes erratic lines, and is inconsistent from lap to lap, and I can't commit to a line to pass until he commits to a line. I will be on the front brake to keep my forks compressed so I don't run wide in case he does so that I can then dive under him. I am on the gas & slipping the clutch to keep myself in the power so that once I can commit to a line I can rocket past him as quickly as possible and shut the door on him in the next turn.

In answer to the question of how you gas and brake at the same time with the same hand....I just do it without thinking about it. Just like I brake hard while blipping the throttle to match revs to wheel speed when downshifting coming into a turn. I don't usually actually hold onto the bars like I'm grabbing something so much as I loosely drape my hand around the grip. I twist the throttle more from the friction with the web of my hand between my thumb and finger. This allows me to pull the brake hard with my fingers while sliding my hand up and / or down to modulate the throttle but still keep constant pressure on the brake lever. I counter steer by pushing on the bars instead of pulling so I don't need to grab hold for that either. Usually the only time I really hold onto the bars is when jumping (although it may look like it in pics my hand is usually just resting and loosely curled around the grip). I don't problems with arm pump either.

As I said though, if I am trying to do that many things and thinking about it I sually wind up wrecking. I don't usually think about things when racing except line selection that will get me around whoever is in front of me. The braking, sliding, etc. just sort of happen on autopilot while I'm worrying about lines. That may be one of the reasons that I'm so slow too.

[dilettante]

laohu69, (tiger69) Thanks for that input. It was really helpful. I really like what you said about not thinking about it. That's so true for things like this. Also, the draping of the hands on the bars and levers is a useful piece of information. I do often find myself white-knuckling the grips.

[CDNSXV]

I thought that the down-shifting was accompanied by opening the throttle to run the revs up in an attempt to spin the rear wheel loose from the tarmac; and that this was all happening during trail braking.

Well that'd be an excellent way to crash. You are talking about braking hard to slow down yet gasing the hell out of the motor to spin the back tire. YIKES! Those are two opposite actions.

You are trying to make things too complex. laohu69 admits he keeps crashing when trying to do this kind of thing so lets go the simple route. Braking is braking and accelerating is accelerating and the two don't happen together nor at the same place on the track.

I often hear about people claiming to drop several gears and then dump the clutch to get the back tire to slide but I have never yet seen anyone actually do that on the track. Every single guy I have ever seen who slides the back end is using the back brake to do it. If you listen to this video you can clearly hear the engine note die as soon as braking starts. Means the rider has pulled in the clutch and is using the brakes to slide the bike while the motor idles. Then at the apex, he releases the clutch and opens the throttle to accelerate out of the corner.

[yzthumper450]

That vid's awesome! Check this one too, You can hear the same thing.. Engine drops to idle into the turn. It's the rear brake they're using...