Question for Jeep Wrangler Owners

[diamond109]

I'm looking at buying a Wrangler this coming week. Most likely a used 2005+ TJ with under 40k. A local dealer has several of them on the lot.

I owned a 97 TJ, which I bought new in the summer of 96 when they first hit the showroom - it was the 4cyl / 5 speed and though it was a slug for the most part, I had for 7 years and put 120k on it with absolutely no problems at all.

This next Jeep will definitely be a 6cyl but I am up in the air on if I should buy an automatic or a manual again.

It will be a daily driver and also used to tow my bike with a light open trailer - Probably 600 - 700 lbs max towing weight, which isn't an issue at all. I plan on installing a 2" Pro Comp lift and 32" BFG's.

So my question is on the transmission for the above usage - which would you suggest? Pros & Cons?

Thanks!

[Upinthetrees]

I've owned Jeeps for the last 20 years. CJ-7s, and YJs. Never liked the TJs. Way to cramped for anyone over 6 ft.. But I do know at least 100 people who do. I gotta tell you, I'm impressed that you were able to tollerate a 4 banger for that long. Best thing you can do is go with the 6. With the 4 cyl. your lucky if it will get out of it's own way. You'll get a little better gas mileage with a stick, but there powered and geared from the factory with a much better power band than the pre 4.2. The 4.0 was/is a solid motor, but without the proper gearing, they will labor under load. So youd be wise to have gone with a stick. But the newer models with the 4.0 litre have more power and gearing, so you wont lose much under load. You wont have any problem with the load rating your planning on towing with either. I've towed my little trailer with a couple bikes many times without any issue what so ever. And the tire lift combo is a mild by jeep standards.

BTW: IMHO The new JKs arent jeeps. I hate what has happened to jeep. The new models are butt ugly !!!

I use mine for off roading.?

[bmack1022]

My current jeep is an 03. I started with 3.07 the worst gears JP could install with 31's. Now Im at 35's w 4.56. IMO My JP performed best w 31's and the 3.07. A lil lift and big tires put a lil drag on it. I still drag a trailer, Its a dog. I think fat mud tires and steel wheels slowed it down the most. I think with the set up your talking about you'll be more than gravy.

[chris142]

I drive an 02 I bought new. In the past I owned a 4cyl and never again would I buy one. Thing was great off road but downright dangerous on the hwy since it couldn't do the posted speed limit.

I got my 02 with the 6cyl, 5 speed, 3.73 gears and the Dana 44 rear axle. Only reason I got the stick shift is because they wanted over $1000 more for the auto.

IMO I wouldn't worry too much about the trans. I would not get one with the Dana 35 rear axle. They break too easy even on a street jeep.

[adam728]

Auto vs stick really comes down to personal preference. One really isn't "better" than the other (but many will argue that). An auto is definitely easier to drive when rock crawling, that's one big plus!

I agree with looking for a Dana 44 rear, although I think some people over exaggerate the weakness of the Dana 35. 32's and smart wheeling are well within it's capabilities, but if you decided to upgrade down the road you'll have that weak link to address. Cheaper to get a Jeep with a 44 already in it. Plus, you can't get the horrific 3.07 gear ratio with the 44, they all came as 3.73's or 4.10's (Rubicon).

06-450X:

What do you mean the new 4.2 have more power than the 4.0? The 4.2 is the predessesor to the 4L, not vise-versa. I'm confused by the way you worded it. Also, your comment about the JK sounds exactly like the comments of many others when the YJ and then the TJ were released! Just saying...

[jc7622]

Do you think a Jeep TJ would have much trouble pulling a light weight 6x12 enclosed trailer with four bikes in it?

[MARTINFAN]

Do you think a Jeep TJ would have much trouble pulling a light weight 6x12 enclosed trailer with four bikes in it?

Pulling, no probelm. Stopping now there would be the challenge. Trailer brakes?

[adam728]

Do you think a Jeep TJ would have much trouble pulling a light weight 6x12 enclosed trailer with four bikes in it?

Way too much trailer for a TJ.

I tow a 5x8 enclosed with one bike, and even it is a bear at times. I went up thru some smaller mountains with it last weekend, and on 6-7% grades I was pushing to hold 45 mph. This is with 31's, 3.73 gears, and the 4.0 (3 spd auto).

The biggest thing is wind resistance. My 5x8 is pretty bad behind the Jeep, a 6x12 would be horrible. In my manual is actually states that you can tow 2000 lbs, BUT, the trailer should have no more than 10 or 12 sq feet of frontal area (I don't recall the exact number, and the garage is SOOO far away, or I'm too lazy to look). I've been in some strong headwinds, hammer down, getting ~9mpg trying to do 55 mph on the freeeway because of the trailer.

The short wheelbase of the Jeep makes trailers a bit of a handful as well. I think my old 4 banger S-10 pulled my trailer better than my TJ, just because it had a longer wheelbase and let you feel more in control.

[chris142]

The short wheelbase of the Jeep makes trailers a bit of a handful as well. I think my old 4 banger S-10 pulled my trailer better than my TJ, just because it had a longer wheelbase and let you feel more in control.

I agree 100%. A TJ or YJ is just too short to tow much of anything.

[mxguitargod7]

Good choice in shying away from the 4 cylinder. I wish I had gone 6. Stick or auto is personal preference, look at what you want to get into for offroading in the future. Rocks - auto, mud - standard. It's really up to you. Strive for a Dana 44 rear end too, hell, get the Rubicon if you can! Have fun with it though, Jeeps are a real blast.

[Sierra_rider]

If I were you, I would go with the manual. I like to be able to crawl without touching the gas at all. I think the year that you are looking at might have been the 1st year for the 6spd. I don't own a jeep, but have had experience with them. Currently I drive a sas toyota, I like having the longer wheelbase alot. Maybe its time for a cj6? I don't know if I'm the only one with this problem, but everytime I'm out wheelin, I realize that I rather be riding!?

[Kommando]

I HATE the 4spd auto tranny in the TJs and JKs. It transmits more heat under the hood than it transmits power to the wheels. In hills, and especially high-altitude mountains, the otherwise-powerful 4.0L has trouble turning even stock tires with that sucky trans.

I don't hear many complaints about reliability from the auto. But considering that my 4cyl/5spd YJ with stock 4.10s and 30" tires could hold the speed limit going up I-70W out of Denver, and my buddy's TJ Rubicon with an auto couldn't, I'll never own that tranny by choice. Hell, my non-VTEC, auto-tranny, 100HP Civic holds the speed limit going up I-70.

We both had put the gas pedal THROUGH the floor on different occasions, and the Rubi's auto tranny wouldn't even downshift as we watched the speedo drop.

Both the AX-15 and NV3550, as well as the later 6spd tranny, offered in the TJ are decent manuals, with the AX-15 being the least beefy of the 6cyl manuals. In later years, Jeep had a problem with some clip or something holding a hose or slave cylinder or something. If it popped loose or broke, the clutch wouldn't disengage. It was a cheap part to replace though, and the later manual trannies are otherwise plenty solid for moderate usage.

Towing 1000lb or less isn't a problem with even a 4cyl Wrangler. The people having power problems with a 4cyl YJ typically upsized the tires, weight, and/or suspension, without re-gearing and/or upgrading the power output accordingly. Even to run a modest tire 30-31" tall, one should at least re-gear a 4cyl/5spd to 4.56. I also ran an electric fan, K&N CAI, Borla header and catback, free-flow cat, and a Jacobs ignition with 8mm wires. Mine ran down the interstate fine, even turning 31" Trxus MTs, with a big KargoMaster roofrack and Thule crossbars on it. The TJs are a bit heavier though.

If you really want to tow though, get an Unlimited with a manual. The Unlimited tows 3500lb, has a longer wheelbase, and came with a rear D44 standard.

BTW, I'd avoid the ProComp suspension like the plague. While their truck suspensions might be fine, their offerings for Jeeps are typically crap. For such a short lift, and especially towing, I'd go BDS for the warranty. If you want to go taller on the suspension later, shop triangulated long-arms. Some Airlift in-coil bags might help with the towing too.

[bmack1022]

Don't worry about the dana 35. The internet is full of people who know someone who's cousin tore one up. I have one with 35" super swampers. I do the occasional wheeling. I don't treat it like a POS four wheeler. I've even done a few burn outs with it. Don't try to break it and it won't break

[diamond109]

Wow, thanks for all the replies and tips guys. I've spent the whole weekend shopping and came up empty handed. I looked at and drove several Jeeps. I'm sold on the vehicle just not the prices. I've decided on a Rubicon or possibly an Unlimited with a stick. The problem is "most" dealers are absolute scam artists. They do nothing but lie about everything. Not just on the figures but on the history of the Jeep itself. Every one was of course "a one owner local trade in" till I investigated further and found they were out of state leases sold at auction or even worse and had an accident or two to it's credit. The search continues...

[desertracer_brian]

I had a tj with a 6 cylinder and the 3 speed auto, towing even a small flat bed with 2 motorcycles or 3 ha.. don't even try for some hills... even with no trailer steep hills ha... off road easy crawling over rocks... Then we got a 2006 tj rubicon with the 6 speed.. the transmission made the world of difference, but towing still wasn't the worlds best... but the 6 speed was a ton better for driving the car... but i do have a diesel truck so i am spoiled by that towing ha

but we sold the 2006 and picked up a 2008 4 door rubicon its got a lift with 33's and a 6 speed manual.. the new engines.. are a little more difficult to four-wheel in.. No where near the torque as the tj engines well not nearly as much at low idle.. and my brother has a 2007 four door rubicon with an auto and the v 6 as well... honestly i drive it with him every once and a while.... its definitely a pavement car now.. ha that engine reminds me a mini-van with a auto transmission ha

but off-road its nice and simple going thru trail to the desert bar

but i do prefer the engines in the tj much better... i keep thinking how much nicer the new jeep would do with a nice mild horsepower LS-1 sbc.. and it would be a BLAST to drive as well

the four doors are nice though, taking 5 people and fitting gear, coolers and food still and having space to go out on the trails for the day

[wgwgoldwing]

Wow, thanks for all the replies and tips guys. I've spent the whole weekend shopping and came up empty handed. I looked at and drove several Jeeps. I'm sold on the vehicle just not the prices. I've decided on a Rubicon or possibly an Unlimited with a stick. The problem is "most" dealers are absolute scam artists. They do nothing but lie about everything. Not just on the figures but on the history of the Jeep itself. Every one was of course "a one owner local trade in" till I investigated further and found they were out of state leases sold at auction or even worse and had an accident or two to it's credit. The search continues...

If you are willing to come to the Kansas City area, I traded in my 06 Rubicon about a month ago. Here is a link to the dealer's site:

http://superior-chevrolet-toyota-hummer.ebizautos.com/webdetail.aspx?iid=3799956

I can vouch that it was a one owner (me) and can give you complete details on it's history. All maintenance was done by the book, by me. Great Jeep. I traded it in because I needed a pickup. Not sure what you are willing to spend, but, it was listed at $19,995 and is now $17,995.

WGW

[PumpkinHumper]

98 Jeep Wrangler owner. 4.0 3sp auto. If I had to do it again we would of gotten the 5 speed manual tranny. For no other reason than gas milage. My neighbor gets around 22mpg with the manual where our 3spd auto gets around 18-19.

As for towing. The jeep is short and is going to limit your towing. It has the power, just not the wheelbase. I pull a 6x8 flat motorcycle trailer easily with ours. But I wont tow my 5x8 enclosed with it.

Speed is your biggest problem when towing with these. Go too fast and the trailer tends to try and pass you. Keep it around 55mph and its generaly pretty safe. But who drives that slow anymore.

We havent had too many issues with ours. Broke both sway bar end links. new Brakes, Exhaust manifold cracked (common problem), and a ground problem in the dash, new wiper motor. Other than that its been pretty solid. Hasnt left my wife stranded yet.

[adam728]

98 Jeep Wrangler owner. 4.0 3sp auto. If I had to do it again we would of gotten the 5 speed manual tranny. For no other reason than gas milage. My neighbor gets around 22mpg with the manual where our 3spd auto gets around 18-19.

Really? My 01, dead stock, down to the 30" GSA's never mustered more than 17.5 mpg, 4.0 with the 3 speed. 33x10.50's and 31x10.50's knocked that down to right about 17 mpg. I can't say I've met anyone getting better than 18 mpg in their TJ, stick or auto. I think the estimated mileage is even the same between the two.

[Upinthetrees]

Auto vs stick really comes down to personal preference. One really isn't "better" than the other (but many will argue that). An auto is definitely easier to drive when rock crawling, that's one big plus!

I agree with looking for a Dana 44 rear, although I think some people over exaggerate the weakness of the Dana 35. 32's and smart wheeling are well within it's capabilities, but if you decided to upgrade down the road you'll have that weak link to address. Cheaper to get a Jeep with a 44 already in it. Plus, you can't get the horrific 3.07 gear ratio with the 44, they all came as 3.73's or 4.10's (Rubicon).

06-450X:

What do you mean the new 4.2 have more power than the 4.0? The 4.2 is the predessesor to the 4L, not vise-versa. I'm confused by the way you worded it. Also, your comment about the JK sounds exactly like the comments of many others when the YJ and then the TJ were released! Just saying...

Just reread my post. It did come out the wrong way. The pre being the 4.2 Carb is the lesser of the two. The 4.0 EFI is the better of the two. No comparison IMHO. I speak from experience.

When I went from a CJ to the YJ not once did I ever think negative thoughts about the YJ. Better drivetrain, roomier, and personally liked the look much better. Some to this day can't stand the square headlights. I like them. The thing I dont like about the TJ is the room factor. Deffinitely more cramped than a CJ7 of the YJ. But they got smart and produced the Limited as well as the Rubicon for those that prefer the factory warranty for gearing, stronger axles ( not much mind you ). I still would'nt trust them over a long period of time for the kind of wheelin I do. BTW: I lived in AZ for several years and go back at least once a year or more to hit the trails with my AZVJC, Undertaker, and Rock Rat buddies. The 4:1 is definitely a huge plus with the Rubicon as well. Personally for me. I'd rather do it myself. But for those looking for a bit of security when offroading. The Rubicon is a nice rig.

The JK will always be a car to me period, and believe me. I won't be changing my mind. The thing is a car. Just not my style.

As for the Dana 35c. Until you've had to change an axle on the trail especially if the rear end is locked. You won't understand. I've done it once on one of my jeeps, and several others while on a run. Most of the guys early on in my offroading career if you will. Didnt have a clue as to what to do, so I ended up crawling under there jeeps and doing it for them. Not worth the headache. Believe what you want. But from my years of experience, stay away from the 35s. There weak and a pain to work on. Most guys especially in AZ swap them out for either and 8.8 or a 44.

The front 30s actually arent a bad setup. The YJs came with a high pinion rear end for clearance. The only thing that can get you on a regular basis is turning into a rock and popping a driveline u joint. Very Common. Most guys carry spare u joints and it's a quick fix. Anything over a 35 inch tire, I would recommend upgrading to a 44 or my axle of choice 60s.

With a 4:1 transfer case if your going to use it for rock crawling. The only way to go if you have a choice is an A/T. Transitioning is much smoother than that of a stick. Last thing you want to have happen is on a steep or off camber approach for your rig to start rocking or bucking. It can cause you to lose your line in a hurry. Most guys that have a stick even with a clune, stack or and atlas use a hand throttle to help with that.

But this thread wasn't started for rock crawling, but for comparisons between A/T or manual for daily use with lite towing capabillities. It's easy for me to get off on wheelin discussions. My first love, then bikes. ?

[Upinthetrees]

Do you think a Jeep TJ would have much trouble pulling a light weight 6x12 enclosed trailer with four bikes in it?

Your probably looking at a tow weight of around 1200 pounds plus passengers and gear. Not a good idea. I used mine to tow my 4X6 trailer short distance to the dump with a small load and thats about it when it had more of a stock stance. Now I use the pickup. I never took it on the freeway, but have seen those that do. Like said earlier, I'd be concerned about about stopping capabillities, even with keeping additional distance between you and the vehicles in front of you. If you had to brake quickly it could get ugly.