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OK...I re-read the butter bike and mr. ballistic article in the jan09 DB mag...the did mention the mapping is a yosh setting which leans the bottom/mid substantially, and adds a little fuel on top. So the stock setup with only a PMB endcap would be the same type of deal?? Do you test your settings using 02 readings or?? THANKS

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same tyep of deal.

all of my setting are developed with a wideband o2 sensor.

that is th eonly way you can do it.other wise you may as well close your eyes and hammer on the key board.

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same tyep of deal.

all of my setting are developed with a wideband o2 sensor.

that is the only way you can do it.other wise you may as well close your eyes and hammer on the key board.

With all due respect, how do you explain the fact that for decades good tuners have been able to adjust jetting by sound and response alone using tried and proved processes. Reading plugs, combustion chamber color and patterns and various other techniques also tell a story if you know what to look for. It may take a bit more time this way but I think it's a stretch to say that tuning using WB02 is the ONLY way to go. In fact, my experience is that tuning by targeting a set A/F mixture(s) is rarely the best way to go as the data isn't necessarly represenative of "quality" of the blend in the combustion chamber just prior to ignition. In addition, until the software/hardware can adjust timing and the acceleration pump profile and pulsewidth it's still a bit of a compromise. I think the system from JD can do all the above but it's not available unless you buy directly from JD in Italy. If you know how to jet the biggest difference with EFI is that you don't have to get your hands dirty to make a change.

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Mark, I am also a tuner, and have been tuning for years with spark plug color, color tune, sound, response etc.

I am also a Piano tuner.... and if I can make a comparision... I can tune a piano with a tuning fork and it will sound good, I can also tune it with an electronic tuner and it will sound better.

A wideband 02 is perfect at all RPMS, and will catch things even a good plug/ear tuner might miss.

Its really that simple, its just more accurrate. Generally, EFI means WB02 and carbs mean plugs/ears and color tuning.... to me anyways. You can make such fine adjustments with EFI that the WB02 helps makes things just perfect.

Steve

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With all due respect, how do you explain the fact that for decades good tuners have been able to adjust jetting by sound and response alone using tried and proved processes. Reading plugs, combustion chamber color and patterns and various other techniques also tell a story if you know what to look for. It may take a bit more time this way but I think it's a stretch to say that tuning using WB02 is the ONLY way to go. In fact, my experience is that tuning by targeting a set A/F mixture(s) is rarely the best way to go as the data isn't necessarly represenative of "quality" of the blend in the combustion chamber just prior to ignition. In addition, until the software/hardware can adjust timing and the acceleration pump profile and pulsewidth it's still a bit of a compromise. I think the system from JD can do all the above but it's not available unless you buy directly from JD in Italy. If you know how to jet the biggest difference with EFI is that you don't have to get your hands dirty to make a change.

it is the only way to go for tuning fuel injection. you dont agree,thats fine.my results speak for themselves.

so you got your spark plug in your hand and you dont like what you see? ok what rpm and tps cell are gonna adjust?

as far as target a/f ratio not representing quality? thats why i use the dyno in conjunction with the wide band.

the PC5 does do the accelerator pump emulation.

it does not control timing.i wish it did becuase i would sell more than i already do.

bottom line,you tune your bike via a plug color or whatever arcaic method then bring it to me.be 100% assured i can find more power.

all methods you decribe worked fine when thats all we had.

abacus or scientific calculator?

being capable at jetting does not mean you can tune efi. this proves it self every day becuase of the big name tuners around the country i am sending files to.

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There's no question that a WB combined with a dyno is the way to go. I was commenting on tuning using O2 alone, particulary those $400 toys they sell today. A good scientific grade fast response O2 sensor and associated electronics will set you back way more than that. I've seen as much as 2 points difference between the same cheap WBs on the same vehicle. Talk about throwing darts! And I agree, everything else being equal using a dyno will maximise power (at least on paper). But I think what we all want here is lower lap times, not always max power. Even the biggest names (and budgets) in racing ultimately use lap times as the final word. We're not racing dynos, although I see more and more people in the tuner car forums comparing dyno charts instead of time slips. That's when folks like Jack Roush use experience and their senses and not a "machine" to fine tune for that track, that day, that driver. Every rider has his/her own preference on not only how much power but how that power is produced. I think MX action did a quick writeup on the Yosh tuner/RMZ and in one day they said they made significant improvements using the same track testing process they used for carbs. I can't say they gained HP but their lap times were better. I doubt the map was remotely close to those produced using the high tech equipment but it worked for them. Within limits (a blown engine) power is a lot like suspension, to each his/her own. So, can there be one "best" setting?

The advent of EFI in MX has opened up many opportunities and the folks using the latest test technology to take advantage of it are doing the racing community a great service, no question. The products of all this effort are no doubt superior to anything offered by the manufactures and probably better than most experienced tuners could do without extensive testing. If I didn't have the time to do it myself I'd demand nothing but a product produced using the latest technology. So, hats off to all you folks.

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with out the "machines" guys like roush wouldnt be any where near where they are.they wouldnt even be able to get close enough to fine tune.

not the final word? ok,but there is no final word if you cant get to the end.

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here is a screen shot of the map dynojet put out for the fmf slip on (who knwos which one).it is not one of my maps.

i can garuntee you would get no where close to this by staring at a spark plug,by lap time or by feel.

pcv5screenshot.jpg

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You're right, I'd never be able to get every cell exactly like yours. However, I've got plenty of data logged with throttle position vs rpm for the way I race so I'd only focus on my particular big swinger cells. That would probably exclude 70% of the map where I spend very little time while racing. My map would work only for me under racing conditions. Your map is superior in that it'll work great for just about anyone under any condition!

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