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Del Taco V big name co

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Brief history, KX450f that had been revalved by big name co last year that put me back about $650 and all I got for that was a seperator valve with single stage stack in shock and modded midvalve with wierd looking rebound setup and very weak compression in same valve that caused the fork to blow through the stroke in the process blowing out both oil seals, base valves appeared hardly touched. Was going to do it myself last year but didn't feel comfortable so after concussion (not caused by suspension) and a short layoff I decieded to give it a go myself. Was looking at Dave's products last year and liked what I was reading so gave him a call, I can tell you he was very helpful but you most probaly know this already so I ended up purchasing Del taco, ICS spring mod and base valve check plate mod in the search of that YZ plush feel that I'm after with out the mid stroke harshness that seems to plague most riders. I had a few hiccups in the rebuild mainly due to mechanic but instructions were very clear and easy to follow. Ended up with single stage midvalve for MX and I'm assuming del taco standard setup for rest with two stage base valve and outer oil level at 330ml. Today was the first day that I rode the bike at local practice track and I have to say that before the end of the first lap it was obvious that forks were sweet, of the stand bike still feels a little stiff but once you get going that blow off type setup comes into its own, it would be a little unfair to completely critique fork as rider tired realy quickly after three month layoff but for the times I did come up a little short on the table tops I didn't get that jolt that was present when stock and bike definately felt more forgiving. As day wore on track got a little rougher but front didn't seem to faulter, one thing that I just realized was that bike was turning well, the 07 KX450 in not the greatest hadling bike but it tracked well around corners and didn't want to wander outward which normally happens when I haven't riden for a while like it did in the past, this bike likes outside lines. Now I also have the Smart per, fluid in there but with out doing a back to back with a fork without I can't realy give a (did it improve or not opinion), all I can say is that overall I was very happy with the front end. Now the rear was also revalved by me per Dave's and it was still kicking a little but again I tired quickly and my style was questionable at times so I going to give it more time and work with the adjusters and see what happens before I go back to the drawing board on that one. My last clicker settings on fork were 12 out on compression and 9 out on rebound and fork appears to be using pretty much all the travel without bottoming hard, stock springs by the way. So overall very happy with fork setup and would recommend this product, price wise you can't go wrong. A real big thankyou to Dave and his product and great service, one happy rider. Look at my signature, bike still hates me but atleast its now harder for her to shrow me off. I'll repost updated ride report when I'm a little fitter and play around with clickers a little more.

Ralph

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Good you like it what sort of kick in rear is it on large bumps or smaller ones and is it better going faster or slower

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Harrperf, I let a much younger decent B guy ride it and he said it was tending to push down the front a little over jumps like there was too much rebound in the rear, I backed of this a little but noticed as track got rougher I was getting a little stuttery accelerating out of a couple of the corners, bike has always done this a little, hs is two turns out and I think that ls comp is about 12 and 9 or 10 on rebound. I have to post shock stack later, overall I was much happier with shock performance.

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Ralph-:ride:

Run your rebound @ 8 and compression @ 10

recheck your sag after you warmed it up

you'll like it

you know we have the same basic set up,

I'm a little heavy'r

I run my shock LSC @ 8 / R @ 8 :p

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Unfortuneately kick is hardly ever a rebound issue in bumps...if you like the way it jumps then don't mess with the rebound!

you probably want the rebound adjuster out as far as you can stand...it makes the bike hook up better leaving corners, but it has some drawbacks, namely g outs and such.

If it kicks coming into corners and gets better if you go slower...then it's soft

If it better when you go faster, its usually a tad too stiff.

BUT, if the forks are too soft/or low in the stroke during the bumps, the shock will kick even when set up really soft.

Some taco set ups IMHO have the crux of being a tad too soft if not just right for you, especially if they get deep stroke. They may feel good by themselves (not evaluating the whole bike), but with a low oil height (a good thing...) they don't have much progression deep in the stroke which makes it feel nice and plush and consistent deep stroke, but allows the rear end to force the front down and it kicks more easily with nothing forcing the rear shock to compress.

So don't overlook the front effecting the rear at this point, however I am sure with some tuning in everything will work good. If the front is just tad too soft...then this can occur, so if you come to that conclusion, contact dave and see his thoughts, of course your shock can be to blame at this point...just don't know!

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Thanks for the replies guys, Alan, its scary that someone on here actually knows me know other than my hide behind screen name, one thing I thought of driving today was the bike is fitted with a procircuit link that wasn't realy taken into consideration. I know per mxa reports that it stiffens up the first part of the stroke on the rear as well as lowering the bike a tad so I think I'll swap it out mid practice next time I'm out and see what happens, the steeper steering angle might help out as well. Then maybe a little more oil in the forks. I'll post again on this in a few weeks and pass on my thoughts and conclusions.

Thanks again.

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Had to dig this up because I feel that this is what I am struggling with at the moment. I am almost on the money with Daves setup and I am going extremely fast. After going two clicks out on the forks LS (just for giggles) I can't beleive what you can throw at it. I go right back in for sand at Daves original setting of 10 for sand. I feel that it is tricky to get the rear balanced for different conditions. This quote is fantastic.

Unfortuneately kick is hardly ever a rebound issue in bumps...if you like the way it jumps then don't mess with the rebound!

you probably want the rebound adjuster out as far as you can stand...it makes the bike hook up better leaving corners, but it has some drawbacks, namely g outs and such.

If it kicks coming into corners and gets better if you go slower...then it's soft

If it better when you go faster, its usually a tad too stiff.

BUT, if the forks are too soft/or low in the stroke during the bumps, the shock will kick even when set up really soft.

Some taco set ups IMHO have the crux of being a tad too soft if not just right for you, especially if they get deep stroke. They may feel good by themselves (not evaluating the whole bike), but with a low oil height (a good thing...) they don't have much progression deep in the stroke which makes it feel nice and plush and consistent deep stroke, but allows the rear end to force the front down and it kicks more easily with nothing forcing the rear shock to compress.

So don't overlook the front effecting the rear at this point, however I am sure with some tuning in everything will work good. If the front is just tad too soft...then this can occur, so if you come to that conclusion, contact dave and see his thoughts, of course your shock can be to blame at this point...just don't know!

So if I am going at speed towards a squared edged bump and the back end gets tossed up how would going in on the shocks LS make the bike even more unbalanced. On the other hand would backing the LS out the other way really make it wallow on the rest of the track.

Dave on my shock I went in two clicks on both rebound and LS from your settings. Do I go more?

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Had to dig this up because I feel that this is what I am struggling with at the moment. I am almost on the money with Daves setup and I am going extremely fast. After going two clicks out on the forks LS (just for giggles) I can't beleive what you can throw at it. I go right back in for sand at Daves original setting of 10 for sand. I feel that it is tricky to get the rear balanced for different conditions. This quote is fantastic.

So if I am going at speed towards a squared edged bump and the back end gets tossed up how would going in on the shocks LS make the bike even more unbalanced. On the other hand would backing the LS out the other way really make it wallow on the rest of the track.

Dave on my shock I went in two clicks on both rebound and LS from your settings. Do I go more?

The trick with the back of the bike is trying to figure out why it's doing what it is doing, before any adjustments can be made.

Here's why.

If the compression damping is too stiff, the suspension may not want to move easy or fast enough and therefore not properly absorb the energy coming into the wheel.

What effects the compression damping (putting all possibilities in the bucket) are the compression stack, (shims) the exchange stack, (more shims) the low-speed adjustor, the high-speed adjustor, the rebound adjustor (it's a two-way valve) the nitrogen pressure and the big main spring. Of course we could consider links and static friction and all that stuff, but I'll keep that out for now.

So, too stiff and the wheel and such can't get out of the way fast enough and any extra energy goes into the chassis and rider.

Simple fix, you loosen things up.

That said, if the back of the bike bottoms out, this too will cause the rear to kick around. Obviously if there is so much energy coming into the bike and it has nowhere to go (no way to be absorbed) it too will send that extra energy into the bike.

So let's say that you just landed a big jump and the back is bottomed out or nearly bottomed out and before it has a chance to recover, you hit a big bump. The back of the bike is going to kick. Really doesn't have anything to do with anything other than the fact that the suspension was all used up and another strike or hit was introduced.

The same thing can happen when you have a succession of bumps, like a big whoop section. The more hits the bike takes, the more travel gets eaten up and of course, the back starts to kick.

So, if the bike doesn't kick on a single bump, but does kick two or more bumps in, you can begin to understand what is going on.

Now...with that, there is also the issue of recovery time. In other words, rebound. If you hit a big bump with the back of the bike using all of its compression stroke, then hit another bump before the suspension can recover, this may not be an issue of compression damping, it may be the inability for the rear of the bike to recover fast enough. Aka, "packing".

So yes, you could stiffen the back of the bike up so that it does not compress as far, (providing you more of a reserve for the next bump) or you could loosen the rebound so that it recovers faster making more suspension available before the next bump comes into play.

And you could lose your mind trying to figure out what to do when, as you often don't really know unless you have the means to capture what is happening.

And in some cases, more or less of one thing may patch the problem, but not really resolve it. Like...running a bigger spring may hold you up further in the stroke...but then cause the bike to ride funky. That sort of thing. Or, less rebound may speed the recovery, but then cause the bike to pogo in a rhythm section.

So, the moral of the story is to understand what happens when and where, then to make some logical decisions. But obviously "my bike kicks" is not enough of a diagnosis to know exactly what to do.

And of course, if you open up the rebound you will also lose some compression, (it’s a two-way by-pass around the piston) so keep this in mind as well.

With that, I would break it down into what the back of the bike does with respects to single and multiple hits. Then, if possible, get a feel for if it is packing (sinking) or remaining high. If you're that good with feeling the bike, you'll then know exactly what knobs to turn. If not, you may need some added help with a friend and/or a video camera.

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That was key info Dave. Thannks. I actually ended up today 2 more clicks in on the LS. Now I am a total of 4 in from where you put them on LS and 2 more in on rebound. Sag at 102mm.

I don't get it. The bike just keeps getting better. I tested at a local sand and gravel spot that gets very chopped and has a variety of ungroomed garbage and the back tracked good. It never kicked up on me and it never stepped out. I have this fear that I am going to make it too stiff back there but it doesn't seem like I am. I am 2 out from where you had me set the forks and that was my area of concern. 2 clicks out made the front just a tad more fluid to save the wrists and relax- no blisters. I was afraid I would overpower the front end. Is this the magic of the Taco midvalve?

You know I got twitchy up front a little bit with these settings but I only in sugar sand sections that sweep downhill.

Thanks again for the help as I keep getting closer with this setup. I have never gone faster with this much safety. I think I need a bigger front rotor on this KX!

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That was key info Dave. Thannks. I actually ended up today 2 more clicks in on the LS. Now I am a total of 4 in from where you put them on LS and 2 more in on rebound. Sag at 102mm.

I don't get it. The bike just keeps getting better. I tested at a local sand and gravel spot that gets very chopped and has a variety of ungroomed garbage and the back tracked good. It never kicked up on me and it never stepped out. I have this fear that I am going to make it too stiff back there but it doesn't seem like I am. I am 2 out from where you had me set the forks and that was my area of concern. 2 clicks out made the front just a tad more fluid to save the wrists and relax- no blisters. I was afraid I would overpower the front end. Is this the magic of the Taco midvalve?

You know I got twitchy up front a little bit with these settings but I only in sugar sand sections that sweep downhill.

Thanks again for the help as I keep getting closer with this setup. I have never gone faster with this much safety. I think I need a bigger front rotor on this KX!

Ah...well...the one thing that you will learn with the Dell Taco set-up is that there is a lot more room with the compression adjustors, without the compromises, than with the stock set-up. Feel free to crank them out and see what it does. It can really smooth things out on the rough stuff.

And sand is tricky stuff, made even worse on the downhills. Having a mixed track makes the set-up a little more complicated.

Let me know how the testing goes. :crazy:

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Indeed. So to clarify Dave- Going stiffer with the clickers in the back to get things behaving properly and actually going out in the front to keep the wrists happy should not upset the balance (within reason)?

I suppose the answer is obvious but I think I fall into the catagory of "a little knowledge can be dangerous". Worrying about the chassis being balanced and being afraid to come up with funky clicker settings because I read to many different threads here with completely different riders/setups.

Thanks Dave:worthy:

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