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Silkolene 15W-50, now this....???

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In a nutshell, I've about 400 more miles on a 5k partially re-built motor (new crank, bearings, seals, piston rings). For those who remember, after re-assembly my c/s was tight at first (hard to turn by hand), but has since loosened up considerably (spins freely by hand). In the first 3 oil changes after re-build, I discovered small metallic flakes on the drain plug, I believe I may have installed a shim wrong which was why the c/s was tight and these flakes were the by-product of the shim wearing in. Not enough to be alarmed over, but was keeping a close eye on just in case. Broke in new piston rings with petroleum 10w-40 as recommended, and JUST switched to the silkolene 15w-50 (which is pure magic, instantly noticed a quieter, smoother shifting engine!), have maybe 10 miles on the 15w.

Well, the unfathomable has happened AGAIN, I drowned the bike AGAIN yesterday. I didn't run the bike after drowning, only tried to start and once I realized what'd happened again I stopped (maybe 20 turn-overs from the starter once drowned). I had enough time yesterday to drain the fluids and get the engine off the bike. When draining the oil, it was clean besides the little bit of muddy water coming out with it, and the drain plug had no more metallic flakes on it than previous oil changes. Then I get to the oil filter, and this............

oilfilter.jpg

***??? It's all steel/magnetic. Fairly thick (estimating .001", guaged by feel), glitter-sized pieces. The s/s filter was full of it. I was running paper filters on the previous 3 oil changes (which were on the 10w, they came out as clean as they went in). I've got a HUGE lump in my stomach right now, I sure hope it wasn't the oil that did this. I'll be tearing down this weekend to discover where this came from, pics coming.....

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I guess look at the bright side, at least you are getting good at tearing the bike down. I'd guess with that much metal, once you have it apart the offending items will be easy to spot.

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im not sure about your engine but i can relate in some freak way.

Story goes that my friend Exploded a 2004 YZ250F including tranny, rod, cylinder and anything else. Destroyed!! so we put in a Ebay motor.

We chang oil every ride day here and filter every 2nd or 3rd ride day. The 1st oil change was with a paper filter and it had very little metal on it bit there was a hint. He switched to the stainless filter at this time. Next oil change had more metal particals. Probably half of what you have there. With disapointment he decided to run it. So we did a week of riding and a few oil changes all having metal grit on the filter. Then out of nowhere the bikes oil cleaned up and it never had dirty oil again. Ran a full season of racing and eventually sold it for a honda 450.

So not saying your engine is fine but its oddly the same situation he was in after switching to a SS filter.

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clues!

partially rebuilt.................. after drowning it while it was running................and then drowning it while it was running.............again.........

cant keep the sprocket nut tight............

please dont blame the oil,lets be realistic.

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The filter was doing its' job, catching the debris.

During all of this, was the engine quiet? No abnormal sounds?

If it was a trans shim in the wrong place and subsequently 'dissolved' it would also mean another shaft was loose due to the missing shim. In any case, a tear down is needed. I suspect the engine will be in better shape than last time though (hopefully). If it was due to misplaced shims, it will be a lesson learned. When building something, if it is not right, fix it immediately. Otherwise, it can only get worse. If I can be of any help, call on me.

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clues!

partially rebuilt.................. after drowning it while it was running................and then drowning it while it was running.............again.........

cant keep the sprocket nut tight............

please dont blame the oil,lets be realistic.

Allow me to re-phrase, please.

Didn't mean to make it sounds like I was blaming the oil, I just meant that its very strange how I changed oils and all of a sudden have this in the filter.

As before, bike didn't run after being dunked, only attempted to start. No way twenty or so cranks did that, it'd have been in the crankcase also (and I watched like a vulture on roadkill when I drained it).

The sprocket nut was never loose, you may be mistaking me for someone else.

Could it be that since this is a heavier-weight oil, the higher viscosity was able to suspend those fragments (which might not have been able to be suspended in the lighter 10w) and finally get them through the filter?

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I guess look at the bright side, at least you are getting good at tearing the bike down. I'd guess with that much metal, once you have it apart the offending items will be easy to spot.

Lol, yeah but not because I want to :p

I sure hope it's just a c/s shim, though I kinda doubt it due to the amount. I've never seen anything like this before, its seriously about the same consistency of glitter. Ouch.

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Plus, all that glitter that has yet make it to your oil filter is now embedded in your brand new bearings.

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The filter was doing its' job, catching the debris.

During all of this, was the engine quiet? No abnormal sounds?

If it was a trans shim in the wrong place and subsequently 'dissolved' it would also mean another shaft was loose due to the missing shim. In any case, a tear down is needed. I suspect the engine will be in better shape than last time though (hopefully). If it was due to misplaced shims, it will be a lesson learned. When building something, if it is not right, fix it immediately. Otherwise, it can only get worse. If I can be of any help, call on me.

Yes, never a strange sound or abnormal operation. This weekend will tell, I didn't have time yesterday nor do I this week to work on it. Once I got the motor off, I plugged all the holes and filled the crankcase with 10w-40/gas to preserve the internals from rust until I can tear it down. Hoping I can save the bearings this go around, imagine I'll need a new wrist pin and piston rings but those aren't the expensive parts :p

I'll be sure to give you a jingle when the time arrives, thanks for the offer Will :ride:

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the bike was running when you submerged it both times correct?

Yes, but not submerged enough to get in through the intake (intake clean both times, exhaust port on engine submerged 1st time, above water 2nd time). Running when dunked, I fight for a minute or two trying to get it out. Won't come out, so I turned the engine off (both times!) to catch my breath. Catch my breath, jump back on to start, won't start. :p .......go ahead, I deserve a bashing :ride:

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LOL, I would have thought you would have learned your lesson the first time.

Sometimes, the third time is the charm. :p

As long as the bike is running and the intake is above water... no water should be able to get into the engine. Now, if you shut it off... well... you know the rest.

EDIT - wait, how far up was the water the second time? Not above the exhaust at all?

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how far up was the water the second time? Not above the exhaust at all?

No, actually about two inches below the exhaust port on the engine. I don't understand how it happened again. It sounds fishy, but I'm certain (and the muddy water line proved it) the water never reached the ports, exhaust or intake. Boggled, but somehow still managed to enter through the exhaust port (header pipe was full of water in the sag portion). I suspect where the header meets the mid-pipe, but thats just about even with the header/exhaust port.

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